Lords Sitting of 16 May 1898

Preamble
THE LORD CHANCELLORtook his seat on the Woolsack at a Quarter past Four of the clock.
PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.
  BIRMINGHAM, NORTH WARWICKSHIRE, AND STRATFORD-UPON-AVON RAILWAY (EXTENSION OF TIME) BILL.
  Ordered to lie on the Table.
  COMMONS REGULATION (WOLSTANTON MARSH) PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL.
  Ordered to lie on the Table.
  CUSTOMS AND OTHER OFFICES (BARRY DOCK) BILL.
  Ordered to lie on the Table.
  CUSTOMS OFFICES (SOUTHAMPTON) BILL.
  Ordered to lie on the Table.
  FOLKESTONE CORPORATION WATER (TRANSFER) BILL. [H.L.]
  Report from the Select Committee, That it is not expedient to proceed further with the Bill; read, and ordered to lie on the Table.
  CITY AND BRIXTON RAILWAY BILL.
  Orders made on the 26th of April and Thursday last discharged; and Bills committed.
  GREAT EASTERN RAILWAY (GENERAL POWERS) BILL.
  Orders made on the 26th of April and Thursday last discharged; and Bills committed.
  TODMORDEN CORPORATION WATER BILL. [H.L.]
  Report from the Committee of Selection, That the EARL of CRAVEN be proposed to the House as a member of the Select Committee on the said Bills in the place of the LORD HAY (E. Kinnoul); read, and agreed to.
  GREAT NORTH OF SCOTLAND RAILWAY BILL. [H.L.]
  Read the third time, passed, and sent to the Commons.
  MIDLAND RAILWAY (WEST RIDING LINES) BILL. [H.L.]
  Read the third time; an Amendment made; Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.
  LONDON AND SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY BILL. [H.L.]
  Read the third time; Amendments made; Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.
  NOTTINGHAM CORPORATION BILL.
  Brought from the Commons; read the first time; and referred to the Examiners.
  WHITWICK AND COALVILLE GAS BILL.
  Returned from the Commons with the Amendments agreed to.
  HARTLEPOOL GAS AND WATER BILL.
  Returned from the Commons with the Amendment agreed to.
  EDINBURGH MERCHANT COMPANY BILL. [H.L.]
  Returned from the Commons agreed to, with Amendments: The said Amendments considered, and agreed to.
PROVISIONAL ORDER BILLS.
  LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 1) BILL.
  Read the second time (according to Order), and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.
  LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 2) BILL.
  Read the second time (according to Order), and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.
  ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 4) BILL.
  Brought from Commons; Read the first time; to be printed; and referred to the Examiners. [No. 71.]
  EDUCATION DEPARTMENT PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION (LONDON) BILL. [H.L.]
  To be read the second time To-morrow.
  EDUCATION DEPARTMENT PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION (BARNES, ETC.) BILL. [H.L.]
  To be read the second time To-morrow.
  GAS ORDERS CONFIRMATION (No. 1) BILL. [H.L.]
  Read the second time (according to Order).
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.

  WORKMEN'S COMPENSATION ACT, 1897.
  I. Rules and forms;

  II. Explanatory memorandum;

  Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.

  TRADE REPORTS, 1898.
  Annual Series: Diplomatic and Consular Reports on Trade and Finance: No. 2091. Italy (Lombardy).

  EDUCATION (SCOTLAND).
  Minute of the Committee of Council on Education in Scotland, dated 16th May, 1898, amending the terms of Article 117 of the Code of 1898:
  Presented (by command), and ordered to lie on the Table.

  MEDWAY CONSERVANCY.
  Statement of receipts and expenditure for the year ended 25th March, 1898: Delivered (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

  MERCHANT SHIPPING (LIABILITY OF SHIPOWNERS) BILL.
  THE MARQUESS OF LONDONDERRY (Earl VANE): My Lords, I rise to move the Second Reading of the Measure that stands in my name. In doing so, I have every confidence that the Measure will receive your Lordships' universal approval. I am confident that it will receive your Lordships' approval on two grounds. In the first place, because I have received intimation from my noble Friend below me who represents the Board of Trade in your Lordships' House, that this Measure will not be opposed by them; and, secondly, because this Measure passed through all the stages in another place, not only without criticism, but without discussion of any kind or sort. Amongst the various stages through which the Bill passed was the Grand Committee stage. The Grand Committee comprised the representatives of all political views of the great shipping industries of Great Britain and Ireland; and when I tell your Lordships that this Measure emerged from that Grand Committee uncriticised, and, consequently, unaltered, I think you will agree that I am justified in saying that I am confident the Bill will receive your Lordships' sanction. Under these circumstances, I have no doubt your Lordships will justly think it is unnecessary for me to explain to you the object and provisions of this Bill. But I have always felt, in introducing a Bill into this House, that it is due to your Lordships that the mover of a Measure of any importance at all should, at any rate, very briefly, explain to your Lordships what are the objects and provisions of the Measure. I shall, therefore, in a very few words, explain to your Lordships the objects and provisions of the Bill, the Second Reading of which I am now moving. The main object of the Measure is to remove an injustice to the shipowning classes under which, at the present moment, they labour, but which hardship is not shared by their foreign
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  competitors. The object of the Bill is to limit the liability of shipowners in respect of damages which may occur without their fault. In order to explain this, I must ask your Lordships to call to your memories the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, which limits the liability of the owners of a ship, British or foreign, in respect of damages and occurrences happening or taking place without their actual fault. In section 508 of that Act there occur the words—
  "This right is not to extend to any British ship which is not recognised as a British ship within the meaning of this Act."
  And in section 2 it is stated that—
  "The ship required to be registered under the Act is not to be recognised as a British ship until it is so registered."
  Consequently, as your Lordships will see, the joint effect of these sections is that owners of unregistered British ships cannot avail themselves of the statutory right of limitation of liability. I daresay your Lordships may recollect a decision that was given by Sir Richard Phillimore in 1878, to the effect that—
  "A vessel at time of launching, or at any time before registration, is not recognised as a British ship within the meaning of the Act, and therefore cannot avail herself of limitation of liability."
  The result of this finding, and the sections to which I have alluded, is that the law of limitation of liability to owners is extended to foreign ships, but is denied to owners of British ships before registration. A foreign ship is entitled to limitation irrespective of registration, and the Bill which I now submit to your Lordships extends that limitation of liability from the launching of a ship until the date of registration. The Bill also provides that the tonnage of British ships shall be ascertained in the same manner as that of foreign ships. I have explained briefly the objects of the Bill, and having ascertained that my noble Friend below me will not oppose the Bill, I have every hope of its passing into law. I feel sure that the shipowning class will be glad to hear that the Government have given their hearty support to so harmless and beneficial a Measure.
  THE EARL OF RAVENSWORTH: My Lords, as I happen to be the President of the North-East Coast Steamship Owners' Association, I am very glad to have the opportunity of endorsing the words which my noble Friend has addressed to you. "Liability," my Lords, is a word that is looked upon with some suspicion and a great deal of fear usually, and nobody knows better than my noble Friend that, after the experience of last year, we are not inclined to look upon the word with any particular favour. This, I am happy to say, is a Bill of relief to the shipowners, and not a Bill to increase liability. I believe there is no objection whatever to this Bill. On the contrary, I believe it is held in favour by those engaged in the great industry which it effects. It has passed through the Lower House of Parliament, as my noble Friend, the mover, has stated, without criticism or objection, and I feel certain that if your Lordships' House will allow it to pass into law, it will be an act of justice to the shipowning interests of this country.
  THE LORD CHANCELLOR (The Earl of HALSBURY): My Lords, I offer no opposition to the Second Reading of this Bill. Of course, it will go to Standing Committee, when the incidence of registration will have to be considered, and a certain time for registration put into the Bill.
  Question put.
  Read a second time, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

  ATTENDANCE OF CHILDREN AT SCHOOL (SCOTLAND) BILL. [H.L.]
  Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

  DURBAN HARBOUR.
  VISCOUNT SIDMOUTH: My Lords, I beg to ask whether, in view of the offer of the Natal Government to provide a large supply of coal for the use of the
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  Royal Navy, the Government intend to take any steps for the purpose of rendering the harbour at Durban more accessible to Her Majesty's ships. In asking this question, I need hardly remind the House of the very handsome offer which was made by the Colony of Natal of 12,000 tons of coal for the use of Her Majesty's ships, which offer, I hope, has been duly recognised by the Government, and which I had hoped to see recognised by Parliament also. I wish to call the attention of the House to the peculiar situation and capabilities of Port Durban for giving access to Her Majesty's ships for the purpose of using this coal. I can speak from experience of the dangerous bar at the mouth of the harbour, having on one occasion nearly lost my life there. It is a most dangerous harbour, and one which is hardly ever used by Her Majesty's ships; but when you get inside, the harbour is a good one, and the only good one which we possess on that coast. I believe that inside there is a considerable depth of water, and that vessels can get up to what is now the town of Durban. It seems to me that considerable difficulty will be experienced on the part of Her Majesty's ships in making use of this valuable gift of coal unless something is done to render the harbour more accessible, and the question which I wish to put to the Government is whether, in return for the very handsome, patriotic, and generous gift of the authorities at Natal, they will take steps to ascertain whether anything can be done by the Government to make that harbour thoroughly useful for Her Majesty's ships. If the harbour is rendered more accessible, it will prove a valuable adjunct to our resources in that part, as there is no other harbour along that whole line of coast which is available for Her Majesty's ships.
  THE EARL OF HOPETOUN: In reply to the question of my noble Friend, I have to state that for many years past great efforts have been made by the Government of Natal to improve the entrance to Durban Harbour. These efforts have been crowned with considerable success, and at the present time the harbour may be considered accessible by

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  vessels drawing about 17 feet of water, so that a very large number of third-class cruisers already use the harbour, except occasionally after gales. It must, however, be borne in mind that the bar is a constantly shifting one, and that work which it has taken months to carry out may be rendered useless by 24 hours of heavy weather from the east. This is a very serious consideration, as the harbour might be suddenly rendered inaccessible to our larger ships at the very moment when they most needed to make use of it. Her Majesty's Government are fully alive to the patriotic motives which have prompted the Government of Natal to offer so liberal a supply of coal for the use of Her Majesty's ships, but, looking to the facts which I have laid before your Lordships, they do not deem it advisable to make an Imperial naval and coaling station at the port of Durban.
  House adjourned at 4.45.