Lords Sitting of 22 March 1898

Preamble
THE LORD CHANCELLOR took bin seat on the Woolsack at Twenty minutes past Four of the clock.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

  REGISTRATION (IRELAND) BILL.
  THE EARL OF DENBIGH: My Lords, this Bill, the Second Reading of which I now move, is one which is made necessary by the Irish Local Government Bill, which wall come up to your Lordships in due course. It is a Bill which should pass through Parliament as soon as possible, as it is necessary to make rules for carrying out registration before local government can be established, and it, is intended to issue the precepts with regard to these different rules by the 1st Juno. I will ask your Lordships to note that this Bill in no way prejudges the electorate which will elect the local government in Ireland. It merely provides the machinery whereby the persons whom the electors may decide upon will be elected when the time comes. The first clause provides that the lists of Parliamentary electors in Ireland shall be made up from poor-law electoral divisions, instead of from Parliamentary polling districts; and I would say no more about that, my Lords, except to note that under the Local Government Act, as introduced in another place, the poor-law electoral divisions will be the unit upon which the whole of the registration of the country wall be based. Then it provides that a supplementary list shall be prepared in addition to the Parliamentary register, and on this supplementary list will appear the names of the peers and women who are to be the voters, in addition to the Parliamentary
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  voters, to elect the members of the local government in Ireland. It is provided in one sub-section that such entry on the supplementary list shall not of itself confer any right to vote; but that, my Lords, is merely a protective proviso to indicate that this Registration Bill in no way confers any right to vote, which will, of course, be provided by the Local Government Bill. Sub-section 3 deals with the fact that at the present moment any alteration of a poor law electoral division made by the Local Government Board has to be an alteration made for all purposes, but it is not intended to alter the poor-law electoral division as a rating area until the Local Government Act comes into force. This Bill merely deals with the question of providing the electoral machinery. Subsection 4 provides that any additional expense beyond what is now provided out of the Consolidated Fund shall be raised upon the country as a whole, and sub-section 5 provides that the Lord Lieutenant in Council may make the rules for carrying out the registration machinery. I do not think, my Lords, that there is anything else to be said with regard to this Bill, which I believe passed through another place with very little comment being made upon it. I beg to move the Second Reading of this Bill.
  VISCOUNT CLIFDEN: My Lords, if I thought there would be anyone to go into the lobby with me I should be delighted to divide against this Bill for two reasons. The first reason is that this Bill is part and parcel of the last Act of destruction which is passing through another place, and the other reason is that it gives votes to women, which is a most pernicious practice. The principle of giving votes to women in Ireland is—
  THE EARL OF DENBIGH: May I interrupt the noble Viscount, and point out that this Bill does not give any votes to women? It is expressly provided in the clauses that the entering of the names on the supplementary list does not confer any right to vote. This right will be given by the Local Government Bill.
  VISCOUNT CLIFDEN: Then do I understand that women are not to have votes?
  THE EARL OF DENBIGH: Not under this Bill.
  VISCOUNT CLIFDEN: What I protest against is that women should have votes at all, and I think the noble Earl's objection to what I said is somewhat captious. I object to women having votes anywhere, especially in Ireland, because a vote given to a woman in Ireland is a vote in the priest's pocket. I do not think that is a good thing for Ireland. They are going to have their own way a great deal more than is good for the country, and if I thought anybody would come into the Lobby with me I would divide against the Bill.
  Motion agreed to.

  WEST AFRICA.
  VISCOUNT CLIFDEN: My Lords, I beg to ask the Lord President of the Council whether Her Majesty's Government agree that Boussa and Nikki, with surrounding territory, are under our protection; whether the above-mentioned places, amongst others, have been occupied by France, and for how long; and whether, if so, any protest has been made by Her Majesty's Government; whether any native chief has appealed to us for protection against the French; whether it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to leave the French in possession of these territories; whether Lieutenant Bretonnet (or his companions), who is said to have occupied Boussa, has sold some of the inhabitants as slaves? I have only a few words to say as to my reason for putting these Questions, which, I have no doubt, will receive the usual satisfactory answers from the Front Bench. Last year—I will not trouble your Lordships to go further back than that—we were put off every day when we wanted to know what was going on in the East by the one statement that we must not disturb the concord of Europe. Then this year the noble Marquess at the head of the Government told us what had happened, and that
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  nothing could have been better than what had happened, and that he had nothing further to add on the subject. He led us to believe that we lived in the best of worlds and under the most admirable Government. Now I have no doubt that the question I am raising, which is a very serious one and concerns the honour and welfare of the country, will be allowed to hang on the same as the affairs in the East, and that next year the noble Marquess—I hope he will be in his place next year—will tell us again that this is the best of worlds and the most admirable of Governments.
  THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (The Earl of SELBORNE): I have been requested by the noble Duke to answer the Questions of the noble Viscount as being responsible in this House for the department which is concerned with the places referred to. I think it is scarcely necessary for me to take up the cudgels for the Prime Minister. I think your Lordships will be able to decide for yourselves whether his attitude as regards the Eastern Question last year is strictly such as has been represented by the noble Viscount. I will, however, as shortly as possible, endeavour to give the noble Viscount a satisfactory answer to the Questions he puts. Boussa and Nikki, which are in Borgu, have by Treaty accepted British protection. The British protectorate over Borgu was formally notified to the French Government on the 1st January, 1895; and, through informal communications, the French Government had been aware of it for nearly three years before that date. Boussa was occupied by French troops in February, 1897, and Nikki in November, 1897. Her Majesty's Government have protested against these occupations. The King of Boussa has appealed for protection against the French. One of the points to be determined by the Commission now sitting in Paris is that as to the respective claims of Great Britain and France to the possession or Boussa and Nikki. Her Majesty's Government have no information as to any sale of slaves at Boussa.
  The House adjourned at 4.45.