Lords Sitting of 24 June 1898

Preamble
THE LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at a Quarter past Four of the clock.
PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House that the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid upon the Table the Certificates from the Examiners that the Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have been complied with—
LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 8).
  LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (GAS).
    METROPOLITAN POLICE PROVISIONAL ORDER.
      LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (HOUSING OF WORKING CLASSES).
      Also the Certificates that no Standing Orders are applicable to the following Bills—
LAND DRAINAGE PROVISIONAL ORDER (HACCONBY FEN).
  LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No, 4).
    MILITARY LANDS PROVISIONAL ORDERS.
    Also the Certificates that the further Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have been complied with—
BRISTOL TRAMWAYS (ELECTRICAL POWER, ETC.).
  BRISTOL TRAMWAYS (EXTENSIONS).
    EASTON AND CHURCH HOPE RAILWAY (EXTENSION OF TIME).
      MIDDLESBROUGH CORPORATION (GAS).
        BURNLEY CORPORATION (TRAMWAYS, ETC.).
        The same were ordered to lie on the table.
    VIGOR'S DIVORCE BILL. [H.L.]
    A Bill to dissolve the marriage of Cliffe Henry Vigors, of the New Barracks, Limerick, a captain in the Royal Irish Regiment, with Katharine Mary Vigors, his now wife, and to enable him to marry again, and for other purposes—presented (on petition), and a copy of the proceedings in, and of the decree of divorce of, the Queen's Bench Matrimonial Division of the High Court of Justice in Ireland, delivered (on oath): Bill read the first time; and to be read the second time on Monday, the 4th of July next. The usual orders made.
    CLACTON-ON-SEA GAS AND WATER BILL.
    Examiner's Certificate of non-compliance with the Standing Orders referred to the Standing Orders Committee on Tuesday next.
    STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE.
    Report from, That the Standing Orders not complied with in respect of the following Bills—
CROMER GAS,
  DROGHEDA GAS,
    GLASGOW CORPORATION (SEWAGE, ETC.),

      NORWICH ELECTRIC TRAMWAYS,
      ought to be dispensed with, and the Bills allowed to proceed.
      Read, and agreed to.

CRANBROOK DISTRICT WATER BILL.
The CHAIRMAN of COMMITTEES informed the House that the opposition to the Bill was withdrawn. The orders made on the 13th instant and yesterday discharged, and Bill committed.
LONDON COUNTY COUNCIL (ACTON SEWAGE) BILL.
Reported from the Select Committee with Amendments.
METROPOLITAN RAILWAY BILL.
Reported from the Select Committee with Amendments.
NEWCASTLE AND GATESHEAD WATER BILL. [H.L.]
The Queen's Consent signified, and Bill reported with Amendments.
EAST HAM IMPROVEMENT BILL.
Reported with Amendments.
CHARING CROSS, EUSTON AND HAMPSTEAD RAILWAY BILL.
Read the second time, and committed.
MATLOCK URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL BILL.
Read the second time, and committed. The Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.
WALKER'S ESTATE BILL. [H.L.]
Read the third time, and passed, and sent to the Commons.
TODMORDEN CORPORATION WATER BILL. [H.L.]
Head the third time, and passed, and sent to the Commons.
PORTSMOUTH CORPORATION TRAMWAYS BILL. [H.L.]
Read the third time, and passed, and sent to the Commons.
WINDSOR AND ASCOT RAILWAY BILL. [H.L.]
Read the third time, and passed, and sent to the Commons.
LEICESTER FREEMEN BILL. [H.L.]
Read the third time, and passed, and sent to the Commons.
ILFQRD IMPROVEMENT BILL.
Read the third time, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
CARMARTHEN IMPROVEMENT BILL.
Read the third time, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
GREENWICH HOSPITAL BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
POOR LAW (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 13) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (POOR LAW) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
BOLTON, TURTON AJSTD WESTHOUGHTON EXTENSION BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read the first time; and referred to the Examiners.
HIGHAM AND HUNDRED OF HOO WATER BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read the first time; and referred to the Examiners.
LIVERPOOL CORPORATION BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read the first time; and referred to the Examiners.
MALDON WATER BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read the first time; and referred to the Examiners.
MID-KENT WATER BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read the first time; and referred to the Examiners.
SHEFFIELD CORPORATION BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read the, first time; and referred to the Examiners.
WEY VALLEY WATER BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read the first time; and referred to the Examiners.
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE BILL. [H.L.]
Returned from the Commons agreed to.
SUFFRAGAN BISHOPS BILL. [H.L.]
Returned from the Commons agreed to.
GREAT EASTERN RAILWAY (GENERAL POWERS) BILL.
Returned from the Commons with the Amendments agreed to.
SHERINGHAM AND BEESTON PROTECTION BILL. [H.L.]
Returned from the Commons agreed to, with Amendments.
WIRRAL RAILWAY BILL. [H.L.]
Returned from the Commons agreed to, with Amendments.
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  DISEASES OF ANIMALS ACTS, 1894 AND 1896.
  Order, dated the 20th day of June, 1898, No. 5812, revoking Order 5744, which prohibited the conveyance of animals by the s.s. Alfafa: Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.
BILLS ADVANCED.
  GREENWICH HOSPITAL BILL.
  Read the first time; and to be printed. [No. 124.]
POOR LAW (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Read the first time; and to be printed. [No. 125.]
LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 13) BILL.
Read the first time; to be printed; and referred to the Examiners. [No. 126.]
LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (POOR LAW) BILL.
Read the first time; to be printed; and referred to the Examiners. [No. 127.]
LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 3) BILL.
To be read the second time on Monday next.—(The Earl of Denbigh.)
EDINBURGH IMPROVEMENT PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL.
To be read the second time on Monday next.—(The Lord Balfour.)
LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 4) BILL.
Read the second time (according to order), end committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.
GAS ORDERS CONFIRMATION (No. 2) BILL. [H.L.]
Amendments reported (according to order), and Bill to be read the third time on Monday next.
TRAMWAYS ORDERS CONFIRMATION (No. 1) BILL. [H.L.]
Amendments reported (according to order), and Bill to be read the third time on Monday next.
ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 10) BILL. [H.L.]
Amendments reported (according to order), and Bill to be read the third lime on Monday next.
ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 2) BILL.
Read the third time (according to order), and passed.
ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 3) BILL.
Read the third time (according to order), and passed.
PILOTAGE PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL.
Read the third time (according to order), and passed.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 2) BILL.
House in Committee (according to order): Bill reported without Amendment; Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be read the third time on Monday next.
TRAMWAYS ORDERS CONFIRMATION (No. 3) BILL. [H.L.]
Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read, and discharged.
ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 5) BILL. [H.L.]
House in Committee (according to order): The Amendment proposed by the Select Committee made; Further Amendments made; Standing Committee negatived. The Report of Amendments to be received on Monday next.
ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 6) BILL. [H.L.]
House in Committee (according to order): Bill reported without Amendment; Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be read the third time on Monday next.

POST OFFICE ACTS AMENDMENT BILL.
Order for Second Reading read.
LORD MONKSWELL: This is a Bill to amend the law with regard to the powers now given to rural district councils, parish councils, and parish meetings, to guarantee the Post Office against loss if they set up additional postal facilities within the boundaries of those districts or parishes. The present state of the law is that no guarantee can be given by a rural district council or parish meeting in respect of any postal facilities set up outside that district or parish. The Bill proposes to give the power to parish and rural district councils by agreement to guarantee the Post Office against loss in respect of postal facilities set up outside the boundaries of these districts. It is perfectly clear that additional postal facilities are of advantage to those districts in which they may be set up, and they are also an advantage to the surrounding districts. What the Bill proposes is that these surrounding districts may agree together and give jointly, if they like, a guarantee against loss to the Post Office. I move the Second Reading of this Bill, which has the approval of the Post Office authorities.
Bill read the second time, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.

POISONS BILL.
Order for Second Reading read.
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (The Duke of DEVONSHIRE): The object of this Bill is to give to the public some protection against the

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indiscriminate sale of poisons beyond that which is already afforded by the Pharmacy Acts. These Acts deal with certain poisons which are included in the schedule. They impose certain restrictions as to labelling and in other respects on the sale of those poisons. But the principal restriction which the Pharmacy Acts impose is that the sale is limited to persons registered by the Pharmaceutical Society. The list of poisons in the schedule may be extended, on the recommendation of the Pharmaceutical Society, by the Privy Council, and repeated applications have been made to the Privy Council to include certain other articles enumerated in the schedule in this Bill under the Pharmacy Act. These articles include carbolic acid, which is largely used as a disinfectant, and is the principal one, and may be taken as an example. The Privy Council have always declined to include these articles in the schedule of the Pharmacy Acts upon two grounds: first, that of the inconvenience to which the public would be exposed if any additional difficulty were imposed in the way of obtaining these extremely necessary articles; and, secondly, the dislocation of trade which would be caused if the sale of these articles, which is very extensive indeed, were placed in the hands of what is virtually a great monopoly. On the other hand, the Privy Council have received very numerous representations from coroners' juries to the effect that some additional precautions ought to be taken against the indiscriminate sale of these articles. It is not contended that this legislation, or this Bill, or any other legislation, can very largely diminish the number of deaths which annually take place in consequence of the use of these articles. Out of 579 deaths which took place in the years 1895 and 1896, which are the most recent statistics available, out of 579 deaths caused by the use of articles in the schedule of this Bill, only 111 were due to accidental causes, 468 being cases of suicide. Of course, it is not contended that any restrictions we can impose will be effectual to prevent persons who are determined to take their
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own lives from doing so, but out of 111 cases of accidental death by the use of these poisons 29 were cases of children under 10 years of age, and I think your Lordships will agree that whatever precautions can be given ought to be given against such accidental use of these poisons. The present Bill is the result of these representations to which I have referred, and in regard to these articles it is confined to placing the sale of the substances included in the schedule of the Bill, which are not included in the schedule of the Pharmacy Acts, under certain restrictions as to labelling, and in the next place to give to the Privy Council the power of adding to or removing further articles from the list of substances so treated. The Bill also contains a certain Amendment of the Pharmacy Act itself. That Act has not been altogether effectual even in preventing accidental deaths from the use of poisons included in the schedule, for out of 786 deaths which took place in the years which I have referred to caused by the use of poisons included in the schedule of the Pharmacy Act, exactly half that number were cases of accident, the other half being cases of suicide. There were 393 cases of suicide by these poisons and 393 cases of accidental death. The Pharmaceutical Society have been frequently urged to make further regulations as to the use of these poisons, but for some reason or other up to the present time they have neglected to do so, and the second clause of this Bill provides that the Privy Council may make such regulations independently of the Pharmaceutical Society. These are the objects of this Bill. As I have said, we cannot hope that it will cause any very great diminution in the number of deaths which take place owing to the use of these poisons, but I think your Lordships will agree that, so far as the number of accidents are concerned, they ought to be diminished. I beg leave to move the Second Reading of this Bill.
Bill read the second time, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.

SOCIETIES BORROWING POWERS BILL.
On Order for Third Reading—
*LORD PLUNKET: I rise to move the Amendment which stands in my name, as follows—
"Page 1, line 7, leave out 'or from bodies corporate.'"
I am instructed by the legal advisers to the Irish Government that these words are quite unnecessary, and might prove mischievous. I therefore hope your Lordships will allow these words to be struck out.
Amendment agreed to.
Bill read the third time, passed, and sent to the Commons.

CANALS PROTECTION (LONDON) BILL.
Read the third time (according to order), with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.

MERCHANT SHIPPING (LIABILITY OF SHIPOWNERS) BILL.
Read the third time (according to order), with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
House adjourned at 4.45.