§ * LORD STANMOREMy Lords, I rise to ask Her Majesty's Government whether any further Paper with, regard to the state of affairs in Uganda will be laid upon the Table of the House before the close of the present Session. During the four or five months that have elapsed since this subject was last mentioned in your Lordships' House many very interesting private letters have been received by every mail from that country. I have no doubt that the dispatches received by Her Majesty's Government have contained equally interesting and more authentic accounts of the events which have taken place there, and I wish to know whether, before the end of the Session, any Papers will be furnished to the House which will carry the history of events in Uganda down to a more recent period than that which was the subject of discussion in the month of March last. The dispatches must contain information of interest, and information, which I can see no reason for withholding from this House and the public; and if my noble Friend will continue the new departure which was contained in the Parliamentary Paper circulated this morning, no doubt they will be still more interesting and very much more entertaining. It would be unreasonable to expect that by this time we could have received the Report of the inquiry which, in the month of March, Her Majesty's Government announced that they were about to order to be made into the origin of the disturbances in Uganda. That Report, of course, without extreme diligence, could not have been presented to us by this 400 time. I very much regret that that is so, because by the time we meet, again next year many other subjects will have arisen to drive Uganda—the disturbances, their origin, and their suppression—altogether out of our thoughts. At one time I was inclined to think the incredible diligence to which I have, referred must have been exercised, and that the Report must have already arrived, for, if it has not, it appears to me that Her Majesty's Government have in one respect somewhat anticipated its result or possible result. I wish the Report had been made, as in Sierra Leone, by an independent Commission. I have, however, the fullest confidence in Mr. Berkeley's integrity and ability to carry out the inquiry, and I also trust in the intention of Her Majesty's Government that the inquiry should be Ml and certain. Now, there are three possible classes of reasons which may have given rise to the disturbances. They may have arisen from a fortuitous combination of circumstances for which no individual can be said to be to blame. I speak in no spirit of irony when I say that I believe that that is the origin of disturbances and misunderstandings far more often than very clever people, who want to see something hidden in everything, imagine. Again, it is possible, though at the same time it is excessively improbable, that Her Majesty's Government may have given such strict directions as to what was to be done in certain events in Uganda as to remove all responsibility from those on the spot. That is not likely, but it is conceivable. And, again, the disturbances may in a greater or in a less degree have arisen from the blundering of officials on the spot. No inquiry can be efficient which altogether excludes this last category. The events may or may not be due to any one of those causes, or to a combination of them, but I say no inquiry can be efficient which does not include them all. The chief officials who would be concerned in that matter were Mr. Jackson, Colonel Ternan, and Major MacDonald. Major MacDonald and Mr. Jackson are in Uganda still, and I have not a word to say with regard to their proceedings. Major Ternan is in England, and able to speak for himself. The conduct of Colonel—then Major—Ternan, who succeeded Mr. Berkeley as Commissioner, especially, I think, 401 ought to form an item in the inquiry. Mr. Berkeley left the country in entire peace, and reported that no disturbance of any kind was likely to arise. But during Major Ternan's administration the country fell into a state of general disturbance1—disturbance so great that the English residents at Kampala could not go down to the lake for fear of being murdered, not by rebels, but by the peasants. I will not go further into detail, my Lords, at the present moment. I merely say that Major Ternan's conduct in this matter must form an item in the inquiry. I trust he will be able to perfectly justify every step he took, but I contend that his conduct must form one of the subjects for inquiry. I think it might be expected that during such inquiry, while you in no way prejudge the case as regards any officer, while you would not deprive him of any advantage or any promotion which naturally fell to him, you would hardly go out of your way to give him a special promotion for that special service which must become the subject of inquiry. That is what has been done in the case of Major—now Colonel—Ternan. I trust Her Majesty's Government may have cause to be satisfied, but I do not think that satisfaction can be said to be completely justified until the inquiry has taken place. If the news which is in the papers to-day—which I believe is correct, and has been received by the Church Missionary Society—is true, it shows that Uganda is still in a very serious condition. The last news received from Uganda was to the effect that there was fighting everywhere. This shows what terrible and frightful mischief has been worked, from some cause or other, by means of the recent disturbances, and the necessity for an inquiry into the cause of those disturbances being one of a complete and searching character, and including in its scope the conduct of individuals as well as other circumstances. I conclude by asking Her Majesty's Government whether any further Papers with regard to the state of affairs in Uganda will be laid upon the Table of the House before the close of the present Session.
§ THE PREMIER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Marquess of SALISBURY)402 My Lords, if I could have ventured to make any suggestion on such a subject, I should have recommended my noble Friend to divide his speech into two parts; first, the question whether Papers were to be laid on the Table, which might suitably have been asked to-day; and, secondly, the observation on what those Papers contained, or were likely to contain, which I think would have been more suitably postponed until he has had those Papers in his hand. I hope these Papers will be laid on the Table to-night—I have passed them—and that they will be in the hands of the noble Lord in a few days—Bank Holiday may intervene. But I certainly shall not follow his example in discussing what they contain or what they might not contain. I do not at all understand the doctrine that he lays down with respect to the treatment which servants of the Crown ought to receive. He has grounds wholly unknown to me for suspecting certain dark things of a very distinguished servant of the Crown, Major Ternan. I do not for a moment presume to pronounce upon evidence which I have not seen, and indeed upon charges of which I am wholly ignorant. I entirely demur to the doctrine that because some persons, may entertain the opinion my noble Friend does in respect to Major Ternan we should therefore in the slightest degree dispense with that recognition or interfere with the bestowal of that promotion which undoubtedly for his general conduct he deserves. He is a very distinguished man, and, like so many others, has compromised his health in that ungrateful country. I am bound to say, as far as my knowledge goes, I know nothing but what is good of him, and I certainly cannot pay any attention to views founded on evidence which I have not seen, and which I know nothing about. Therefore I cannot admit that we have in the least degree prejudged any inquiry that may take place. I hope that shortly we may have the opinion of Mr. Berkeley upon the events which took place in his absence. I do not think that grounds so abundant as my noble Friend suspects will be found for blaming any officers of the Crown. Naturally the disturbances which occurred, and which were terribly successful, had a contagious effect, and induced other troops of similar race and 403 position to consider whether something was not to be got by following the example that had been set. At such a time a disturbance of that kind is generally very contagious, and I have no ground for taking the gloomy views my noble Friend takes of the present condition of Uganda. I am afraid it will be in a more or less disturbed condition for some time, for it is a country we are holding comparatively with a very small force, but I have heard nothing to cast the slightest doubt on the probability of a speedy restoration to complete peace, and nothing to cause the slightest anxiety as to what is going on. My optimism may, in the view of my noble Friend, be excessive, but I can only say I speak from the impression that has been left upon me by the documents, undoubtedly somewhat imperfect in their extent, but of which my noble Friend will shortly be able to judge as well as I. I hope he will not find that there is any serious cause for complaint in regard to the conduct of officers who have had to perform a task of stupendous difficulty in the face of extreme obstacles, and with very few of the advantages which in more civilised countries those who conduct warfare of this kind would obtain. I can only say that I think the result of the Papers will be to make my noble Friend prouder of the conduct of English officers when they are placed in a position of extreme difficulty, and have to serve their country under circumstances of signal disadvantage.
THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYMy Lords, I do not rise to make any comments whatever upon this matter. I think we may well wait to see the Papers that are to be laid on the Table. I simply wish to ask the noble Marquess one question. I desire to know whether there has been any confirmation of the reports which have been published in the newspapers to the effect that there has been a severe engagement between the Indian troops in Uganda and the Soudanese, and that the Indian troops have suffered severe losses.
§ THE PREMIER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRSMy Lords, no such information has reached the Government, but the noble Earl must 404 remember that the telegraph does not extend more than a third of the way up, and that between that point and the area in which these events are said to have taken place there is a distance of 400 miles. It is therefore possible that different accounts of the same event may arrive at the same time, and it is possible that others may have anticipated the official communications; but my impression is that it is probable that the reports in the newspapers are unintentionally exaggerated. I will not, however, pledge myself to that statement, because with the difficulties of communication I have not the power of doing so.
§ * LORD STANMOREMy Lords, I should like to say that the noble Marquess has misunderstood me. I specially disclaimed any wish to interfere with ordinary promotion. What I said was that to give special promotion for special service in connection with a matter into which an inquiry was being held appeared to me to be prejudging to a certain extent that inquiry.
§ THE PREMIER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRSIf I understand the doctrine of my noble Friend, it is that it would be legitimate to reward for seniority, but not for merit. I am afraid I cannot accept that.