LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) BILL. (Hansard, 28 July 1898)

§ * THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND (Lord ASHBOURNE)
I have an Amendment which I have put down to clause 93, and it is necessary that I should put in words in support of that Amendment in clause 3. I therefore propose— Page 2, line 34, after the word 'chairman,' to insert the words, 'subject as hereinafter provided. That is the clause which, directs the chairman of a county council to be an ex-officio magistrate. When this matter was in Committee the noble Earl drew attention to the position that would be occupied by these ex-officio magistrates, and pointed out the desirability of placing them in the same position as the other magistrates in Ireland—that is, making them amenable to the control of the Lord Chancellor. I promised on the discussion that I would consider the matter before Report. I did not see my way to take the words which the noble Lord suggested, but I can see no reason why these magistrates should be in the position of all the county magistrates in Ireland, and there is no reason why the Lord Chancellor should not have the power, if there chances to be any misconduct, of dealing with them in their position as magistrates. I have dealt with that in the clause to which I have referred—namely, clause 93—and I have done it in this way— Every such chairman who is by virtue of this Act a justice of the peace shall, notwithstanding anything in the other provisions of this Act, be subject to the same restrictions, disqualifications, and power of removal as any other justice of the peace. That is a prudent and sensible Amendment. I am aware that it is not in the English law at present, but I believe it has been looked upon, as an omission that it would be very desirable to cure. I have heard that it is so. I do not understand that there will be any more occasion with reference to these magistrates to use this power of the Lord Chancellor 125 than there is in the case of the other magistrates, but every officer must have some person over him. Her Majesty's lieutenants for counties may be removed on the determination of her will, and every other magistrate is subjected to the control—the necessary, prudent, cautious control of the Lord Chancellor. I do not want to go into the class of case where my own interference has been requested; they are not numerous, and they are managed with caution and with forbearance, and with every consideration for the feelings of the person named. Take one case for example. There may be some intemperance, and if a man in the position of a county magistrate, no matter what his social standing or rank, forgets himself so far as to give way to intemperance, and thus brings the administration of justice into disrepute—that is a case for the exercise of the Lord Chancellor's power, which is never used unnecessarily, and, as I have said, is always used with every consideration possible. I think this will commend itself to your Lordships' judgment. I believe it is desirable in all parts of the United Kingdom, and therefore I think it would be reasonable to introduce it into this Bill.

§ * THE EARL OF ERNE
The Amendment which the noble Lord has placed on the Paper goes very largely to meet the objections I have to the clause. There is one point which it does not cover, but the whole thing is surrounded by difficulties, and I am quite conscious of the fact that the position of the chairman of the county council is not the same as the chairman of the district council, which is very well safeguarded in this Bill. On the whole, I think it better to accept my noble Friend's Amendment, and I am quite content to leave the matter as he suggests, namely, at the discretion of the Lord Chancellor.

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord HALSBURY)
I heartily appreciate the Amendment, and I think it is a misfortune that it was not put into the English Act, or that some such provision as this should have been inserted therein. I had had my intention called once or twice to the omission of such a power, and I think it was only by inadvertence that it was omitted. As 126 your Lordships are aware, I suppose that the general observation would be that the next time he asked for election ha would not be elected if he had misconducted himself in the meantime. But during the period of his tenure of office he may be guilty of any misconduct whatsoever, and there would be no power of removing him. I daresay your Lordships will remember that something of the sort was discovered with reference to the misconduct of a coroner. He was elected by the freeholders of the county, and just in the same way as happens hare, there was no power to remove him, and so Parliament passed an Act of Parliament which gave the Lord Chancellor for the time being the same power to remove a coroner for misconduct as he possesses over any magistrate in the commission of the peace, and I think that power should be possessed over magistrates who hold office because they are chairmen of county and district councils. It has happened more than once—the particular case of intemperance to which the noble Lord referred has in fact happened—and I think that it is not calculated to increase the respect for the administration of justice when a person has been before a bench of magistrates one day, and has been fined, and on the following day he is sitting there passing judgment upon persons guilty of a similar offence. I therefore very heartily approve of the Amendment, and trust it will be followed by beneficial results.