HL Deb 25 July 1898 vol 62 cc1047-9

Amendment proposed— Page 49, line 21, leave out 'or,' and insert 'whether in making an order or in confirming an order made by a county council, and in the exercise of.'"—(Lord Asnbourne.)

*THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND

This is merely a drafting Amendment.

Question put.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendment proposed— Page 49, lines 25 and 26, leave out 'so far as conveniently may be,' and insert 'except in any case where the preservation thereof would cause serious inconvenience.'"—(Lord Macnaghten.)

LORD MACNAGHTEN

My Lords, the object of this Amendment is to make it plain that the boundaries and counties are not to be changed without good reason.

*THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND

If your Lordships will refer to clause 100 you will see that an Appeal Commission has been constituted to deal with cases of this kind.

LORD MACNAGHTEN

Yes, but I think the Appeal Commission ought to-have some light to guide them.

*THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND

The sub-section reads— The boundaries of counties at large and unions as existing at the date of the order shall be preserved, so far as conveniently may be.

Surely that is clear enough.

LORD MACNAGHTEN

What is the meaning of those words?

*THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND

They are as plain as the words of my noble Friend. He proposes to leave out, "so far as conveniently may be," and to insert, "except in any case where the preservation thereof would cause serious inconvenience." It is really only a question of phraseology. The Appeal Commission will know that they are not to interfere lightly with boundaries, but to have regard to the general convenience, and to the preserving of existing boundaries, "so far as conveniently may be."

LORD MACNAGHTEN

Will the noble and learned Lord accept the Amendment if I substitute, "substantial inconvenience" instead of "serious inconvenience"?

*THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND

These clauses were examined very minutely in the other House, and the Appeal Commission was called into existence to meet the case to which the noble Lord has called attention.

LORD MACNAGHTEN

I do not think there is any difference between my noble and learned Friend and myself.

*THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND

There is not. I have no reason to think boundaries will be lightly interfered with. If we strike out the words in the clause, and insert others, it will be said that something revolutionary was intended.

*LORD MORRIS

My Lords, I think the words my noble Friend [Lord Macnagh-ten] suggests would be better. I do not know what might not be "conveniently" done. It is a vague phrase. Lord Macnaghten puts the onus upon the parties who move of showing that the alteration must be made, because otherwise it will be substantially inconvenient.

*THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND

I will accept the Amendment with the word "substantial."

LORD MACNAGHTEN

Then the subsection will now read— The boundaries of counties at large and unions as existing at the date of the order shall be preserved, except in any case where the preservation thereof would cause substantial inconvenience.

Question put.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendment proposed— Page 50, line 29, at end of clause add as a fresh sub-section— Such changes in the ordnance map as appear to the Lord Lieutenant in Council to be rendered necessary by this Act, or any Order in Council made there under, shall be made through the Commissioner of Valuation in manner directed by the Lord Lieutenant in Council."—(Lord Ashbourne.)

Question put.

Amendment agreed to.

Question put— That clause 66, as amended, stand part of the Bill.

Motion agreed to.