POOR LAW (SCOTLAND) BILL. (Hansard, 5 July 1898)

*THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (Lord BALFOUR of BURLEIGH)

My Lords, I beg to move the Second Reading of this Bill, which will need very few words of explanation, as I do not anticipate there will be any opposition to its passage through this House. At the present time the laws which affect settlement and removal of paupers differ in all the three countries of England, Scotland, and Ireland. In England settlement is acquired either by birth or by three years' residence in a parish, and what is called a status of irremovability is acquired by residence for, one year in a union. In Scotland settlement is acquired either by birth or by five years' residence in a parish, and except on medical grounds there is nothing corresponding to a status of irremovability; in other words, anyone who becomes chargeable under the Poor Law may be sent from the parish in which he claims relief to the parish of his settlement; and he may be sent to any other parish in Scotland or out of the country to England or Ireland if his settlement is in one or other of those countries. This state of the law has given rise to complaints and to hardships both as regards paupers whose settlement is in other parishes in Scotland and also to some extent in the case of those who are removed to England and to Ireland. The objects of this Bill are twofold. In the first place, we propose to reduce the period which is required to acquire settlement by residence in a parish in Scotland from five to three years; and in the second place we propose that any English or Irish-born pauper who has resided for five years continuously in Scotland shall not be removable, either to England or Ireland, but shall remain chargeable to a 1086 parish in Scotland. In the case of paupers who have not lived for five years continuously in one parish in Scotland we shall allow an appeal to the Local Government Board for Scotland, to say whether it is or is not reasonable that their removal, out of the country should take place. The third clause of the Bill provides that where it is proposed to remove a Scottish-born pauper from the parish in which he is residing there will be an appeal to the Local Government Board, which Board shall, without delay, investigate the grounds of such appeal, and to determine whether it is reasonable and proper that such poor persons shall be so removed. The fourth and fifth clauses make the provision which I have mentioned as regards the English and Irish-born paupers; and the sixth clause deals with the question of machinery, and the power of granting warrants of removal under the Poor Law Removal Act, 1862. I do not mean to say that in the existing state of the law there are to be found all the grievances which both English and Irish Members have sometimes complained of, but I agree that in some cases hardship has occurred, and I admit that the present state of the law has given rise to a feeling that there is a grievance especially in Ireland. We have made these proposals with the object of removing what grievance there is. I am glad to be able to inform your Lordships that our efforts have been accepted by the other House of Parliament, and have been frankly accepted by the Irish Members, and the Bill has passed, with very slight amendment, through the other House. I hope that, under such circumstances, your Lordships will now read it a second time, and that in a few days it may become law.

§ LORD TWEEDMOUTH

My Lords, I do not rise to offer any opposition to this Bill, which is founded on justice. It provides for the assimilation and equalisation of the law of the three kingdoms, and removes an Irish and also a Highland grievance, because the grievance is felt as keenly in Scotland as in Ireland. But there is one question I should like to ask the Secretary for Scotland with regard to the method in which he proposes to carry out the procedure under this Bill. He makes the Scotch Local 1087 Government Board the arbiter of all disputed cases; he makes the Scotch Local Government Board the arbiter between individual parishes where there is disagreement; and he makes the Scotch Local Government Board the arbiter between the pauper himself and either the parish to which he is to be removed or from which he is to be removed. As is stated in the Memorandum, no less than an average of 1,200 removals already take place every year. I am afraid that there will be always found a considerable number of disputes arising over these cases, and what I want to know is, on whom, in the Local Government Board, is the duty to be laid of making these inquiries and giving these decisions? Is the Local Government Board to be strengthened for the purpose? This Bill will involve a considerable increase of work on the Local Government Board for Scotland, and that Board is not, I think, over-manned, though its members are excellent people. I trust that my noble Friend will take care that some extra remuneration is given to the Board or the member of the Board upon whom will be cast the work arising under the Bill. I should like to remind my noble Friend of What has been done in a similar case in Ireland. I find it stated in the Times of a week ago that Mr. J. H. Monaghan, Q.C., for some years legal adviser of the Local Government Board, has been granted an addition to his salary owing to the great increase in the legal business of the Board. His increase, I believe, amounted to £600. I want to put in a little plea for similar treatment of our Scotch officials, and I hope my noble Friend will take care that either some increase is given to the staff to meet this extra work or that the members of the Board on whom the duty will fall should receive some extra remuneration.