CLAUSE 10. (Hansard, 4 August 1898)

§ THE EARL OF FEVERSHAM
I have an Amendment down for the exclusion of clause 10, but I wish to ask the noble Lord in charge of the Bill what the reason is, if this Bill is to be so beneficial to England, why it is not to be extended to Ireland and Scotland. I am told that Ireland and Scotland are very well satisfied with the present law, and that that is the reason why this Bill is not to be extended to Ireland and Scotland; but I must point out that, the general tendency of legislation in this House is the principle of applying the same legislation to, Ireland and Scotland as to England, and I should like to know why it is that this Measure, which is supposed to be so, beneficial, is not to be extended to those two countries.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN
I was just going to ask the same question, and I would point out to the noble Lord in charge of the Bill there is every reason for extending this to Ireland pad Scotland, if it were only because certain 60 parts of the Bill assimilate the law of England to the law as it at present stands in Scotland. For instance, the period within which a child had to be vaccinated in England used to be three months, whereas in Scotland it was six. This Bill adopts the period of six months for England also. If we go on to clause 3 (of course, we will say nothing of clause 2 at present), that clause makes, for the first time, a difference in the law of the two countries in regard to penalties, and I would ask the noble Lord in charge of the Bill whether it will be possible, supposing the Bill is passed with that clause in it, to enforce cumulative penalties in Scotland? It may be said that there are very few objectors to vaccination in Scotland. I believe that is perfectly true, because in Scotland we are a very sensible people, but, at the same time there are among us persons who, are not thoroughly imbued with sense, and if they are brought up and prosecuted it will be immediately said that you have made a different law for England. The argument which Lord Feversham used appeared to me a somewhat strong one—that the desire of Parliament ought to be to assimilate the laws as much as possible in all parts of the United Kingdom. I ask, on what pretence do you repeal certain penalties so far as England is concerned and leave them standing both with regard to Scotland and Ireland?

LORD HARRIS
The condition of things in Scotland is entirely different. They have none of the difficulties to meet which we have to meet in England.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN
They have the same penalties.

LORD HARRIS
They are very few indeed, and repeated penalties are still fewer. The reason why the Act is not extended to Ireland and Scotland is because they have already Acts of their own, and I understand that the offices which deal with legislation in those countries are taking steps to assimilate the Act to the extent which is necessary. That, is practically the reason why it was not extended to Scotland and Ireland—that they have Acts already of their own. The point with regard to penalties will be carefully looked into 61 when amending Acts are brought in with regard to these two countries.

LORD HARRIS
This is a consequential Amendment; it is in consequence of the introduction of the other section, which provides for the case of children born either before the passing of the Act or in the period between the passing of the Act and the 1st of January.