Lords Sitting of 11 March 1897

PLAGUE IN BOMBAY.
LORD REAYexpressed his satisfaction with the vigorous measures which had been taken by the local authorities in Bombay to deal with insanitary buildings. This was a very great opportunity for dealing a thorough manner with the sanitary needs of the city of Bombay, and he trusted that the local authorities would receive all the support and financial aid they deserved in attaining the aim and object which they had at heart. It was under the influence of the prevalent disease that the authorities would naturally enlist more easily that co-operation of those most interested which would facilitate the carrying out of measures which in ordinary times often met with a good deal of opposition. Having noticed that Dr. Yersin had reached Bombay, he ventured to ask the Under Secretary of State for India whether any reports had been received of the results of Dr. Yersin's operations since his arrival, and any steps taken to prepare the Yersin serum in Bombay, and to provide a supply of it to the towns of Poona, Karachi, Surat, and to other localities in which the disease had declared itself; and what further information had been received with reference to Professor Haffkine's inoculations, the degree of protection they afford, and the time during which they remain operative?
THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (The EARL, of ONSLOW): The noble Lord has a very intimate acquaintance with the locality in which the plague unfortunately is now prevalent—namely, the Presidency of Bombay, and I am very glad to hear from his lips that he approves of the steps taken by the Government of Bombay to combat the plague. Steps have not been taken in the town of Bombay only, but equally vigorous measures have been taken in Karachi and Poona, and I can assure the noble Lord that the sanction of the Secretary of State will not be refused to any expenditure which may be deemed by the Governments of India and Bombay necessary to combat the plague. With regard to the question the noble Lord has addressed to me, I
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have to say that Dr. Yersin has returned to Bombay, and the only intelligence that we have as yet received is that he reached Bombay and began work on March 6; the effect of his remedy on plague patients only a day or two ill is reported to be "surprisingly good," while cases of old standing are said to be "not so much benefited." Information has not yet been received regarding attempts to provide or use Dr. Yersin's or Professor Haffkine's serum at Poona and Karachi. Regarding operations with Professor Haffkine's serum, the following further information has been received. Up to and including March 7, 2,341 persons had been inoculated, of whom only two (in addition to the two described in my answer to the noble Lord on February 15) have been attacked by plague; both attacks occurred within five days of inoculation, and both sufferers are alive. People are coming forward more freely to be inoculated, and the practice is extending. The Government of Bombay are preparing an organisation for the extension of depôts for purposes of inoculation and for instructing medical officers in the process. Steps are also being taken by the Government of Bombay for popularising prophylactic inoculation and for increasing the amount of lymph that can be produced. The Secretary of State will receive information weekly of the extent to which the practice is resorted to, with report as to its efficacy, and those I shall be willing to furnish the noble Lord with from time to time if he should so desire.
VISCOUNT CLIFDENsaid their Lordships might not know it, but the man who was combating this great disease in Bombay was a German. He believed the man who thought he could combat successfully the cholera was a German, or, at all events, a foreigner. The man who had gone to Cape to fight rinderpest was also a German. From what he had been told, he knew there were men in England quite as able to do these things as foreigners; it was only a matter of money.

INDIAN FAMINE (MANSION HOUSE) FUND
LORD WENLOCKasked the Under Secretary of State for India whether he could give any information as to the manner in which the Mansion House

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Fund had been and would be expended in India; and whether there was ample scope for the beneficial application of the money if the amount subscribed were to reach a figure considerably higher than the present total. Their lordships were aware that the Lord Mayor of London had started what was known as the Mansion House Fund, and had appealed to the public to assist him in raising money for the relief of the distress in India. The public had responded most nobly to the appeal, but it appeared to him it would be a very good thing if the information he asked for could be given, not only for the satisfaction of those who had already responded to the appeal, but of those who were still withholding their subscriptions.
THE EARL OF ONSLOW: As to the second question of the noble Lord, I can at once answer that there is abundant scope for the employment of such funds. But the noble Lord asks me whether I can give him any information as to the way in which the money has been spent by the Committee in India. The noble Lord will perhaps have observed that in the Blue Book of famine Papers which has been presented, the Government of India have laid down the objects to which it is proposed to apply this fund, and we are informed that the Central Committee has applied the money in the manner specified. They have allotted 21 lakhs to provincial committees for urgent demands, and they will make further large distributions shortly. The provincial committees are understood to be working on the lines defined by Government, but are being asked to report their working for the information of the Secretary of State. With regard to the amount which may be required as compared with the amount which has been subscribed, the noble Lord is no doubt aware that the Mansion House Fund now amounts to about £411,000. In addition to that considerable sums have been remitted direct from Lancashire, Glasgow, and other places, and besides that large subscriptions had been raised in India. Subscriptions had also been started in the United States, in Canada, in our Australian colonies, and elsewhere. We do not know what amounts those have reached, but no doubt a considerable sum will be collected. But really the whole question of how much is likely to be able to be profitably utilised
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by the Central Committee depends entirely upon the nature of the next monsoon. If the next monsoon is, as we all hope, a good one, the amount of the funds which will be provided will be adequate to deal with the emergency. But if it should be otherwise, it is almost impossible to exaggerate or overstate the amount which may be required to provide for so lamentable a contingency. I ought to add that there has not, in these considerations, been taken into account what may be required by the native States, but, excluding that, the Central Committee believe that with a good monsoon 140 lakhs—that is, something between £800,000 and £900,000—ought to be sufficient to enable them to cope with the immediate requirements of the situation. But I need hardly assure your Lordships that every sixpence which is subscribed by the public, either at home or in our colonies, will be utilised by the Central Committee in India in the re-establishment of some of those unfortunate people, who, after their immediate and pressing necessities have been relieved by the Government of India, will have to be started again in life to pursue their ordinary avocations.
LORD OVERTOUNasked whether any special effort would be made to secure the co-operation of the missionaries of the various denominations. At the end of the last famine missionaries were asked to undertake the care of orphans. Would anything similar be done on the present occasion?
THE EARL OF ONSLOWunderstood that the Central Committee would gladly welcome the assistance of missionary societies.

JURIES DETENTION BILL.
Brought from the Commons; Read 1a, and to be printed.—[No. 27.]
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

  LONDON (BOROUGH ROAD, SOUTHWARK) PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL.
  Read 2a (according to Order), and committed to a Committee of the whole House To-morrow.
  House adjourned at a Quarter before Five o'clock, till To-morrow, a Quarter past Ten o'Clock.