Lords Sitting of 30 July 1897

NEW PEER.
Sir John Burns, Bart., having been created Baron Inverclyde, of Castle Wemyss, in the county of Renfrew was (in the usual manner) introduced.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

  HIGHGATE WOODS PRESERVATION BILL.
  Order for Third Reading read.
  Clause 5,—
  POWERS OF CONTRIBUTION BY LOCAL AUTTIORITIES.
  The London Council, the Middlesex Council, and any local authority may, jointly or severally, make contributions in aid of such purchase of such amounts and upon such terms and conditions as they may respectively think fit, and may enter into and carry into effect any agreements with the District Council with respect to such contribution.
  Provided that any contribution by the Middlesex Council shall not exceed five thousand pounds.
  *THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Lord LANSDOWNE)moved to add at the end of the clause,—
  "Provided that, notwithstanding any such byelaws, the said open space may, in time of national or local emergency, be occupied and used for military purposes in such manner as the officers commanding Her Majesty's force may deem necessary."
  For some time it had been usual for the War Department to claim in private Bills, in which power was taken to make bye-laws controlling the use of open spaces, that a provision should be inserted that nothing in those bye-laws should have the effect of preventing the occupation of the spaces in question by the military in time of national or local emergency. But he could not explain too clearly that the War Department did not claim a general right to use spaces
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  of this kind for military purposes; they only claimed the right to use the spaces when the circumstances were altogether of a special character. He thought a power of this kind was desirable in the interest of the public, because, if it be assumed that the presence of troops was necessary, it was surely desirable that those troops should occupy open spaces of this kind, and should not be kept in the streets or quaratered in public or private buildings. He admitted that the Amendment was moved at the very last moment in the progress of the Bill through Parliament. This Bill was not announced in November, and was, however, introduced at late as May 18 of the present year, the Standing Orders being suspended for that purpose. It was under those circumstances that the point escaped notice.
  THE CHAIRMAN or COMMITTEES (The Earl of MORLEY)thought the noble Lord was not quite fair upon the promoters of this Bill in moving this Amendment on the very last stage of its passage through Parliament. The noble Lord claimed to exercise, apparently, very wide powers over all these open spaces, but he ventured to think that if these powers were required, which he did not dispute, it would be desirable that they should be given by a public Act. The Bill merely meant that the ownership of this ground, which was private ground, was transferred to certain public bodies, and was to be kept in its natural state for ever. The promoters viewed the Amendment with considerable disapproval. He would venture to suggest that, as in this case at any rate the power sought could not he of any serious importance, the noble Lord should not at this stage press his Amendment on the House.
  LORD THRINGsaid the Amendment was very unusual and extraordinary. When there was a case of real national difficulty he could understand that there was a necessity for the Executive to quarter their troops wherever they liked, and the words "national emergency" had been used, he believed, in one of the Army Acts as meaning in case of war. Local emergency, however, would mean nothing. The county of London, the county of Middlesex, and the urban district of Hornsey had bought this park for the benefit of the private neighbourhood, and they had taken the greatest

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  possible trouble that everything should be kept in its natural state. If an officer in charge of Her Majesty's forces were to have this power, it might be construed to mean any colonel commanding Volunteers at Hornsey, and no indication was given as to the restoration of the park to its original shape, or as to compensation. He hoped the noble Marquess would withdraw his Amendment.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYappealed to the noble Marquess not to press the Amendment. A considerable time had elapsed since the Bill was introduced, and if the War Office intended to put anything into the Bill he thought they might have done so at an earlier stage.
  THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord HALSBURY)said the view he entertained was that the noble Marquess already possessed the power which it was the object of the Amendment to give him. In times of national emergency salus populi suprema lex. He did not feel the difficulty expressed by his noble and learned Friend in regard to the local emergency, because a local emergency was only a question of smaller degree, and in the case of a serious riot, or anything of that sort, it might be necessary to occupy such a place as this park. He had not the smallest doubt in the world, however, that the power already existed, and, that being the case, he thought the Amendment would naturally excite jealousy. He would suggest to his noble Friend that he should not press his Amendment.
  *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEsaid he could not admit the force of some of the criticisms that had been opposed to this Amendment. The provision was already to be found in a considerable number of Bills that had been passed through Parliament during the last few years. In the case of the London parks even more stringent powers were conferred by law on the military authorities. He was bound to admit, however, that the time at which this Amendment was proposed was later than he could have wished, and he was also inclined to believe, from what fell from the noble Chairman of Committees, that the local circumstances in this case were not such as to make it of very great importance that they should have this power. The reason why they were inclined to press for it was because if they did not do so in all cases they found it very much more
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  difficult to press for it in those cases in which it was really of moment for them to have it. He was quite ready to respond to the appeal of the Chairman of Committees, on the understanding that they did not recede from their general position that these rights should when necessary be claimed by the War Department.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn; Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.

  DIOCESAN ASSOCIATIONS.
  THE EARL or KIMBERLEYsaid he wished to make a brief personal explanation to their Lordships. Reference had been made to a statement of his some little time ago in that House that the diocesan association of the county of Norfolk, where he resided, did not admit schools which were not Church Schools, and the Duke of Devonshire had pointed out to him that in the scheme which had been submitted to his Department there was one British school included in the association and some parochial schools of a mixed character. He regretted that he had been misled and had made a statement which was not strictly accurate, and he was extremely glad to find that the association which had been formed in Norfolk was not exclusively confined to Church Schools.

  SUCCESSION DUTY.
  THE EARL OF LEVEN AND MELVILLEasked Her Majesty's Government whether they would provide means by which owners of fine art and scientific collections might ascertain upon what articles Succession Duty would be paid at their deaths. It had been pointed out that the tendency was for the pictures in this country, owing to the influence of the death duties, to leave the country altogether. The duties were in many cases so heavy in proportion to the property that the owners had been in the habit of sending their pictures abroad. He had ascertained on the authority of Sir William Agnew that during the last three or four years pictures had gone out of this country to the value of three and-a-half millions sterling. That was

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  a very serious matter, especially when they considered that these pictures when exhibited in this country conferred a great public benefit. The value of the pictures had nothing to do with the matter. A man who owned pictures ought, in common fairness, to know whether the pictures would or would not come under the heads laid down under the Act. Take a man who had a gallery worth a million. The Succession Duty if nothing was exempt, on that gallery would be.£80,000. This was a large sum for any man to have in suspense, and he wished to know whether, during a man's lifetime, the Government could not inform him whether or not his pictures were of national and historical value or scientific interest. The monetary value was immaterial. It might and did vary in a few years, but a picture which came under one of the categories he had mentioned would always remain so.
  THE PRIME MINISTER (The Marquess of SALISBURY)in the absence of the Lord Privy Seal, who represents the Treasury in the House of Lords, said he was afraid any answer he could give in his noble Friend's absence would be of small value, because it expressed his own opinion without any communication with the Treasury. The question of including pictures, works of art, and other precious articles of the kind in the Death Duties was of a very difficult and thorny character. In strict justice it did not seem to him that objects not yielding income ought to be the subject of capital taxation like the Death Duties. Front a long time back they had been subjected to the comparatively mild probate duty which used to be prevalent in this country; and the essentially burdensome character of the tax was not brought to light until the large extension of Death Duties which took place three years ago. He did not attempt—he could not do so —to give any logical defence of the anomalies attendant on this particular class of taxation. But they were in one of those positions in which they frequently found themselves from the collision of the two principles of Party government, by which front time to time there was an entire change in the holders of office, and the principle of continuity of policy which, within certain limits, was exceedingly valuable and ought not to he
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  neglected. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had already said in the other House that he had no power to deal radically with these new Death Duties until there had been sufficient time to ascertain, by practice, what the nature of their operation was, how far it was oppressive, and, if oppressive, in what respects. It seemed to be a perfectly sound and reasonable doctrine, where two sides differed vehemently on some particular question, that if a change of Party were frequent a change of policy should not be as frequent too. He was afraid he was not able to hold out the probability of any extensive change. Whether any substantial relief would be afforded by such information as his noble Friend desired he had his doubts. His own impression was that if any one stepped out of the ordinary groove and insisted on a representative of the Treasury declaring the value of his pictures, he would find they were more valuable than he thought. The result would be to increase the burden on him rather than diminish it, and the wisest course would be to leave the matter to the action of the ordinary law. After all, he had always the alternative, if he pleased, of selling the pictures, and, though the matter had never been actually tried, he did not imagine that the Treasury, with all its strong financial prepossessions, would venture to require a man to pay at a higher rate than that which the pictures would fetch when actually submitted to auction. Therefore, although the cost of the provision might be considerable from a sentimental point of view in respect of pictures of high value, he did not hunk the financial difficulty, arising Iron leaving the determination of their value to the time when the tax was payable, was a substantial grievance. Without in the least saying he vats satisfied with the general structure of the tax, or that he thought—he was speaking of the tax on articles which did not yield income—it would permanently maintain its present form, he doubted whether the particular kind of alleviation his noble Friend pointed to would be of any value, or whether, even if the Treasury would adopt it, it would be largely valued by all those subject to its action.
  THE EARL OF LEVEN AND MELVILLEsaid that regardless of their intrinsic value, if works of art were of national and historic value and scientific interest, he desired that to be settled in the owner's lifetime, that there might be no uncertainty as to the Succession Duty.
  THE PRIME MINISTERsaid he could not imagine that such an arrangement would be a very easy one to work, and he doubted whether it would be for the benefit of the taxpayer. The fiscal departments of the Government were like others possessing authority—if they were stirred out of their slumber and a decision from them was insisted on, they would give one which would not be liked.
  THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANsaid he did not see where the difficulty arose. What had to be done after a man's death could surely be done as easily while he was alive.

  INFANT LIFE PROTECTION BILL [H.L.]
  Commons Amendments considered (according to Order), and agreed to.

  PUBLIC HEALTH (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  *THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (Lord BALFOUR),in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, reminded the House that the Bill passed a Select Committee of the House last year, and although during its passage through the House of Commons a large number of Amendments were introduced, the Bill had come back, much as it left last year, after undergoing the scrutiny of a Select Committee, presided over by the Duke of Richmond. But there were one or two alterations which he might mention. The first was in Clause 43, which dealt with procedure in regard to unsound meat. On the one hand the towns pressed for stringent regulations against diseased meat being brought in, but these would have been a severe burden on legitimate trade. On the other hand, the agricultural community were most anxious for restrictions and regulations which, while affording protection against the importation of unsound meat, would also protect the honest trader, and prevent him from being summoned when he had not committed any real fault. After much consultation the clause as it now stood in
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  the Bill had been agreed to, and he might -say that it met the wishes alike of the farmers and the municipal authorities. Another clause which was the subject of considerable discussion related to the restrictions which were to be imposed on the milk trade to prevent unsound milk from being sold. The burghs were anxious to have the right to send their own officers and deal with the matter outside the districts over which they had jurisdiction. The country districts naturally resented this, but expressed their readiness, as every one acquainted with them knew they would, to accept provision for strengthening their powers of dealing with the matter. Ultimately the clause as it now stood in the Bill was inserted, with, at ally rate, the acquiescence, if not the entire approval, of all those mainly concerned. Members of the Committee would recollect that the rating clauses of the Bill were subjected to a good deal of criticism, and ultimately it was thought preferable that they should be considered and settled by the other House rather than by their Lordships. He would state briefly what the conditions proposed to be made law under the Bill now were. They would be found in Clause 124 and the following clauses of the Bill. In the country districts at the present time the public health rate was levied along with the poor rate, and that was equally divided between the owners and occupiers. It was levied upon the net and not upon the gross value. There was universal agreement that in the districts the public health rate ought to be levied on the same basis as the road rate, and not as the poor rate. That was, therefore, provided for in the Bill, and it would be levied upon the gross instead of upon the net valuation. The provisions passed by Parliament last year in the Agricultural Rates Act were carefully preserved. In burghs a change had been made, and the rate would now be levied not along with the Burgh General Assessment, but with the General Improvement Rate, which was levied half on owner, half on occupier, upon the gross valuation. The limit for the general public health assessment was proposed to be raised from 6d. to a shilling, and special water and drainage assessment from 2s. 6d. to 3s., power being given to the Local Government Board to sanction a

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  higher rate where the circumstances of a special locality required it. It was also proposed that the whole expenditure within a special district should be levied upon the special district and not upon the general district. Under the Local Government Act of 1889, it was provided that the county medical officer and sanitary inspector should be appointed, and that their services should be available to the district local authorities and neighbouring burghs. By a large majority, contrary to the desire of the representatives of the Government, the police boughs had been relieved from their share of the rate, and consequently of their claim to the services of the aunty medical and sanitary officers. Personally he regretted very much this decision, but it was arrived at by such a large majority of the Standing Committee, and was evidently so much in conformity with the general wish of Members in the other House, that lie hoped their Lordships would agree to the provision as it now stood. Clauses had been introduced for the first time for the purpose of constituting port sanitary authorities to have jurisdiction over ports when not entirely in the district of one local authority, and to meet a strongly expressed desire of the medical profession, the title of medical officer would be medical officer of health in Scotland as well as in England. Considerable controversy took place as to what was to be the respective positions of the medical officer and sanitary inspector, and after a great deal of discussion the Bill remained substantially in the same condition as it did when it left that House. It would be in the power of the local authority, by means of byelaws, to regulate the methods in which those officers would discharge their duties respectively. With regard to the provisions for the compulsory taking of land for the purposes of the Bill, they remained practically in the same condition as when passed by their Lordships last year, with the sole exception that in cases where there was a disagreement between the body proposing to take the land and the landowner, an arbitrator was to be appointed, and if they could not even agree as to the appointment of arbitrator, he would be nominated by the Local Government Board for Scotland, instead of by the Lord Ordinary.
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNsaid he had no objection to Clause 60 of the Bill with reference to the inspection of dairies. It gave the burghs all reasonable facilities. The present practice, he believed, would be much more efficient than the clause in the Bill, or any clause that could be devised. There had never been any practical grievance in this question. The most important points in the Bill were the rating clauses, and he must congratulate the noble Lord on having for the first time enabled them to know what the liabilities of a district were; and provided that each district should pay for the benefits it received. He hoped the position of medical officers was as the noble Lord had stated, because he held that the power ought to be in the hands of the County Councils, whose authority the medical officers and sanitary inspectors ought to obey. Medical officers were always trying to obtain an independent status, and he hoped nothing of the kind had been done in this case.
  THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANcongratulated the noble Lord on the introduction of the Bill, and hoped it would pass this year. He agreed that it was absolutely essential that the medical officers should be under the direction of the county authorities.
  *THE EARL OF WEMYSSdesired to have some information on this question. In his own case a burn passing through his property was polluted by a populous place a mile and a half off. The only remedy the landlord had—as he understood it—in such a case, to abate the nuisance, was that in the first place he must go to a considerable expense in order to abate a nuisance which had nothing to do with him. That seemed to hint to be all unjust state of the law, t here was a strong feeling that it ought in some way to be amended.
  *LORD BALFOURsaid he would not like to give an opinion on the question, because it dealt, not only with this Bill, but with matters under the Pollution of Rivers Act. It would require careful consideration to give a definite answer to the question.
  *THE EARL OF WEMYSSsaid he only asked his noble Friend to consider it; it was an important point.
  LORD BALFOURsaid he would do so.
  Read 2a (according to Order); and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Tuesday next.

  POST OFFICE AND TELEGRAPHS (FACILITIES AND PENSIONS) BILL.
  Read 2a (according to Order); and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.

  METROPOLITAN POLICE (BORROWING POWERS) BILL.
  LORD BELPER,in moving the Second Beading of this Bill, explained that its object was to extend the borrowing powers of the Metropolitan Police. Under previous Acts they had powers of borrowing, but those powers were nearly exhausted, and, as it was necessary to expend considerable sums upon now police stations, fresh powers were urgently required. The Bill had, he understood, passed through the Commons without opposition or alteration.
  Read 2a (according to Order); and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.

  WEIGHTS AND MEASURES (METRIC SYSTEM) BILL.
  Read 3a (according to Order), with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
  NAVAL WORKS BILL.
  Considered in Committee (according to Order); Bill reported without Amendment; Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be Read 3a on Monday next.

  OUTDOOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
  Order read for going into Committee.
  VISCOUNT CLIFDENsaid he did not know the proper moment for doing it,
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  but he intended to raise objection to Clause 4 of the Bill.
  *THE EARL OF WEMYSSsaid some little information upon this Bill should be forthcoming. It was an Irish Bill for empowering the Local Government Board to give extraordinary outdoor relief for two months, and its duration was to be for one month from the present time—rather odd kind of legislation! He would like to know whose Bill it was—did it emanate from Mr. Healy or some other Irish patriot, or was it a Government Bill? His impression, front what he heard, was that it was a Bill introduced by the Irish Government, but he did not know that that inspired much confidence. It was desirable to know more about it, and more especially why this power was to be given to the Local Government Board—of course, a Board more or less open to gentle influencing—to grant this relief for two months. By the fourth clause it appeared that the acceptance of this relief was not to carry with it electoral disability. He well recollected Lord Palmerston remarking, when the suffrage was lowered, that instead of playing to the dress circle and stalls, the Government would play to the pit and gallery; but we seemed in these modern times to have gone a long way beyond that, for here was playing to the workhouses and casual wards, or rather to casuals out of the wards. We had had legislation for them in the form of the Verminous Persons Bill. He was justified in asking why this. strange clause was included in this Bill?
  THE EARL OF DENBIGHsaid, in answer to the noble Earl's question, he had to say that the Bill in question was a Government Bill, and that it was introduced in the House of Commons by the Chief Secretary for Ireland. The clause to which the noble Earl took particular exception—namely, that which provided that the Bill, if it became law, would cease to operate on September 1st, was for the purpose of enabling the Irish Government to deal with any case of exceptional distress which. might come to their notice between now and September. The date was fixed because, about that time, the people in the west of Ireland would then have got some of their harvest in, and labourers who came over for the English harvest would be returning

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  with their earnings, and it was anticipated that there would not be a continuance of the acute distress there had recently been. As he explained yesterday to the noble Earl, the Bill was mainly for the purpose of indemnifying Boards of Guardians who had been giving outdoor relief under the authority of the Local Government Board in Ireland, and this first clause was merely put in as it was thought desirable that the Irish Local Government Board should have the power to give outdoor relief up to that date. It was necessary to fix some date, because it was eminently undesirable to make this a permanent alteration in the law relating to outdoor relief. As regarded the fourth clause, that was drawn word for word from the Bill passed during the time Mr. Morley was Chief Secretary towards the end of 1895, just before the late Government went out of office. Some opposition was raised, he believed, to that clause in its dealing with the electoral franchise, but it was pointed out that on two occasions previous Conservative Governments had passed a similar clause.
  THE EARL OF WEMYSSasked was a General Election anticipated in August?
  THE EARL OF DENBIGHsaid he was not sufficiently in the confidence of the noble Marquess to answer that question.
  Considered in Committee.
  [The CHAIRMAN of COMMITTEES, The Earl of MORLEY, in the Chain.]
  Clause 1,—
  EXTENSION OF POWER TO GRANT OUTDOOR RELIEF IN FOOD AND FUEL.

  (1.) At any time before the first day of September, one thousand eight hundred and ninety-seven, the Local Government Board for Ireland may, if they think fit, by order under their seal, authorise the board of guardians of any poor law union to administer relief in food or fuel, out of the workhouse, for any time not exceeding two months from the date of such order, to any poor persons resident in the union, and the said Board may, by a like order, revoke any such order either wholly or partly or with reference to any particular person or class of persons.

  (2.) On the receipt by the guardians of any union of any order of the said Board authorising such relief, the guardians shall make provision for affording such relief accordingly for such time and on such conditions as may be specified in the order, or until the order is revoked.

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  (3.) The proviso in section two of the Poor Relief (Ireland) Act 1862 shall not apply in the case of any persons for whom relief is authorised under this Act.

  (4.) The expenses incurred in affording relief to any person relieved under this Act shall be charged in the same manner as if such expenses had been incurred in affording relief in the workhouse to such person under the Poor Relief (Ireland) Acts 1838 to 1892.

  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYsaid the noble Earl had described the Bill as similar to one passed by his right hon. Friend Mr. Morley when he was Chief Secretary for Ireland, but were the circumstances similar? That Bill was passed because exceptional distress existed in parts of Ireland. He had no means of knowing if such was the case now. Did an exceptional state of things exist requiring this exceptional legislation? Of course, a state of exceptional distress would be a great argument in favour of such a Bill. He could not help feeling a little doubt when he heard the noble Earl say that the chief object of the Bill was to legalise some relief given by the Boards of Guardians without authority, whether I his clause was not, as it were, thrown in. That should not be, but if there was a state of exceptional distress then that should be stated, and then he offered no opposition to the Local Government Board having such power.
  THE EARL OF DENBIGHsaid the noble Earl was not quite correct in saying that Boards of Guardians acted without authority. They were told by the Local Government Board to act as they had acted upon the understanding that this Bill would he brought in to deal with the matter.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY: Without legal authority?
  THE EARL OF DENBIGHsaid yes, that was so. The Irish Government did consider that exceptional distress existed in out-of-the-way parts of Ireland. As the noble Earl knew, the mere possession of land in the west of Ireland was no sort of indication that the possessor was not a pauper needing outdoor relief, and the provision in the third clause dealt with the existing law, which declared that no person was to have outdoor relief who was in possession of more than a. quarter of au acre of land. He could safely say that the Bill was brought in for the express purpose of dealing with an

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  exceptional state of distress in certain parts of Ireland, principally in the West.
  VISCOUNT CLIFDENasked if there was more distress than usual in the west of Ireland? Irishmen knew that there were people living there who ought not to live there, who could not get a living from the land. Was this to be a perennial Bill?
  THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (The Duke of DEVONSHIRE)said the Local Government Board of Ireland appeared to have given instructions to Boards of Guardians to extend their administrative powers, and it was necessary to legalise the action taken. He inferred, therefore, that in the opinion of the Local Government Board the distress existing was of a somewhat exceptional nature.
  Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.
  Clauses 2 (Confirmation of expenditure by Guardians and indemnity), and 3 (Power to borrow money and mortgage rates) ordered to stand part of the Bill.
  Clause 4,—
  OUTDOOR RELIEF NOT TO INVOLVE ELECTORAL DISABILITY.
  No electoral (Usability or loss of any Parliamentary or other franchise shall be incurred by any person by reason of a grant of outdoor relief having been made to him under this Act, or by reason of any such grant ratified under this Act.
  VISCOUNT CLIFDENthought it should be optional to a man whether he would be a pauper or enjoy the franchise—the two things ought not to go together. Why not enfranchise every man in the workhouses, or even go a step further and confer the franchise on the inmates of Hanwell. No doubt they would use their votes as sanely as many did outside. It was an insult to the industrious that a man receiving Poor Law relief should exercise the franchise. If he could get anyone to go into the Lobby with him he would vote against the clause.
  Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.
  Clause 5 (Short Title) ordered to stand part of the Bill.
  Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be Read 3a on Monday next.

  MILITARY OPERATIONS (SWAT VALLEY).
  *LORD REAYsaid lie wished to ask Her Majesty's Government whether any further information could be given with regard to the operations in the Swat Valley, which had already resulted in the unfortunate loss of many brave men. Since putting the question on the Paper he had seen that the Secretary of State for India yesterday, in another place, mentioned that the cause of the rising of the tribes was the preaching of a mad Mullah, but if there was any other causes he hoped they might be communicated to the House. The last part of his question referred to the area over which the rising, which seemed to be on a considerable scale, was spread.
  THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (The Earl of SELBORNE): In the unavoidable absence of my noble Friend the Under Secretary of State for India, I have been asked to give the noble Lord the information for which he asks. The telegrams published in the London Press give information regarding the military operations in Malakand and in Swat, which agree with the shorter reports received at the India Office. It would be impossible for Her Majesty's Government to make any statement of the causes which have led to the attack without inquiries, which cannot be conducted whilst the fighting continues, and further information must be awaited before the area of the disturbance can be fixed. Dargai, situated somewhat to the south of the Malakand Pass, has not been attacked. It may be of interest to your Lordships if I read out two telegrams received from India yesterday and to-day.
  "From Viceroy, July 29, 1897.—Malakand. —Camp attacked again last night. Casualties—Lieutenant Ford, 31st Bengal Infantry, wounded severely; Lieutenants Maclean, Guides, Swinley, 31st Bengal Infantry, slightly wounded; two Sepoys killed, eight wounded. Enemy's loss not known. They charged up to breastworks, but could not penetrate. Pursuit was not attempted, owing to fatigue of men. Chakdara safe. Dargai has not been attacked. Officers wounded doing well, except Colonel Lamb and Lieutenant Ford, whose condition is serious. In fighting of yesterday, when 24th Bengal Infantry were pressed on Hank by enemy, counter attack, led by Lieutenant Climo, drove back large body of enemy with loss of 90. 38th Bengal Infantry and squadron of 11th Bengal Lancers, strength eight European officers, 12 native officers, 552 rank and

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  file, will probably reach Malakand this evening; 35th Bengal Infantry following. 37th Bengal infantry ordered Peshawar, 8th Bengal Infantry Nowshera, to replace troops reinforcing Malakand. Regret to say Major Taylor, 45th Bengal Infantry, dead."
  "From Viceroy, July 30, 1897.—Malakand. —Total casualties up to July 29 apparently:— Killed—European officers and non-commissioned officers, three; native ranks. 17; followers, 15. Wounded—European officers, nine; native ranks, 71; followers, 11."

  FOREIGN PRISON-MADE GOODS BILL.
  Brought from the Commons; Read 1a to be printed; and to be Read 2a on Monday next—(Lord Balfour).—[No. 197.]

  SATURDAY SITTING.
  THE PRIME MINISTER: It may be for the convenience or the House that I should move that the House at its rising do adjourn till half-past Seven to-morrow evening.
  Motion agreed to.
  House adjourned at Twenty-five minutes before Six o'Clock, till To-morrow, Half-past Seven o'Clock.