HL Deb 29 July 1897 vol 51 cc1408-15

SCALE AND CONDITIONS OF COMPENSATION. — SCALE.

  1. (1.) The amount of compensation under this Act shall be—
    1. (a) where death results from the injury—
      1. (i.) if the workman leaves any dependants wholly dependent upon his earnings at the time of his death, a sum equal to his earnings in the same employment during the three years next preceding the injury, but if the period of his engagement in such employment has been less than three years, then 156 times the average weekly earnings during the 1409 period of his actual engagement or. the sum of ono hundred and fifty pounds, whichever of those sums is the larger, but not exceeding in any case three hundred pounds, provided that the amount of any weekly payments made under this Act shall lie deducted from such sum.
      2. (ii.) if the workman does not leave any such dependants, but leaves any dependants in part dependent upon his earnings at the time of his death, such sum, not exceeding in any case the amount payable under the foregoing provisions, as may be agreed upon, or, in default of agreement, may be determined on arbitration under this Act to be reasonable and proportionate to the injury to the said dependants; and
      3. (iii.) if he leaves no dependants, the reasonable expenses of his medical attendance and burial, not exceeding ten pounds;
    2. (b) where total or partial incapacity for work results from the injury, a weekly payment (luring the incapacity after the second week trot exceeding fifty per cent. of his average weekly earnings during the previous twelve months, if he has been so long employed, but if not, then for any less period during which he has been in the employment of the same employer, such weekly payment not to exceed one pound.
  2. (2.) In fixing the amount of the weekly payment. regard shall be haul to the difference between the amount of the average, weekly earnings of the workman before the accident and the average amount which he is able to earn after the accident.
  3. (3.) The payment shall, in case of death, be made to the legal personal representative of the workman, or, if he has no legal personal representative, to or for the benefit of his dependants, or, if he leaves no dependants, to the person to whom the expenses are due; and if made to the legal personal representative, shall be paid by hint to or for the benefit of the dependants or other person entitled thereto under this Act.
  4. (4.) Any question as to who is a dependant, or as to the amount payable to each dependant, shall, in default of agreement, be settled by arbitration under this Act.
  5. (5.) The sum allotted as compensation to a dependant may be invested or otherwise applied for the benefit of the person entitled thereto, as agreed, or as ordered by the committee or other arbitrator.
  6. (6.) Any sum which is agreed or is ordered by the committee or arbitrator to be invested nay be invested in whole or in part in the Post Office Savings Rank by the Registrar of the County Court in his name as Registrar.
  7. (7.) Any sum to be so invested may be invested in the purchase of an annuity from the National Debt Commissioners through the Post Office Savings Bank, on be accepted by the Postmaster General as a deposit in the name of the Registrar as such, and the provisions of any statute or regulations respecting the limits of deposits in savings bank, and the declaration to be made by a depositor, shall not apply to such sums.
  8. 1410
  9. (8.) No part of any money invested in the name of the Registrar of any County Court in the Post Office Savings Bank under this Act shall be paid out, except, upon authority addressed to the, Postmaster General by the Treasury or by the Judge of the County Court.
  10. (9.) Any person deriving any benefit from any moneys invested in a post office savings bank under the provisions of this Act may, nevertheless, open an account in a post office savings bank or in any other savings bank in his own name without being liable to any penalties imposed by any statute or regulations in respect of the opening of accounts in two savings banks, or of two accounts in the same savings bank.
  11. (10.) Any workman receiving weekly payments under this Act shall, if so required by the employer, from time to time submit himself for examination by a duly qualified medical practitioner provided and paid by the employer. If the workman refuses to subunit himself to such examination, or otherwise obstructs the same, his right to such weekly payments shall be suspended until such examination has taken place: Provided that if the workman objects to such examination he may appeal to the arbitrator, whose decision shall be final.
  12. (11.) Any weekly payment /nay be reviewed at the request either of the employer or of the workman. and on such review may be ended, diminished, or increased, subject to the mum above provided, and the amount, of payment shall, in default of agreement, be settled by arbitration under this Act.
  13. (12.) Where any weekly payment has been continued for not less than twelve months, the liability therefor may, on the application by or on behalf of either the workman or the employer, be redeemed by the payment of a !man sum, to be settled, in default of agreement, by arbitration under this Act, but not exceeding three hundred and twelve times the weekly payment payable at the date of the application, and such lump sum may be ordered by the committee or arbitrator to be invested or otherwise applied as above mentioned.
  14. (13.) A weekly payment shall not be capable of being assigned, charged, or attached, and shall not pass to any other person by operation of law.
  15. (14.) Where a scheme certified under this Act provides for payment of compensation by a friendly society, the provisions of the proviso to the first, sub-section of Section eight, Section sixteen, and Section forty-one of the 'Friendly Societies Act 1896 shall not apply to such society in respect of such scheme.
  16. (15.) In the application of this schedule to Scotland the expression "registrar of the, County Court" means "Sheriff Clerk of the county," and "Judge of the County Court" means "Sheriff."
  17. (16.) In the application of this Act to Ireland, the provisions of Ireland County Officers and Courts (Ireland) Act 1877, with respect to money deposited in the. Post Office Savings Bank under that Act shall apply to money-invested in the Post Office Savings Dank under this Act.

Amendments made: In paragraph (i) leave out "same employment" and insert "employment of the same employer"; leave out but if the period of his engagement in such employment has been less than three years, then 156 times the average weekly earnings during the period of his actual engagement"; at end of same paragraph insert:— and if the period of the workman's employment by the said employer has been less than the said three years, then the amount of his earnings during the said three years shall be deemed to be one hundred and fifty-six times his average weekly earnings during the period of his actual employment by the said employer."—(Lord Belper.)

LORD BELPER

moved at the end of Sub-section (3), after "accident," to insert:— and to any payment not being wages which he may receive from the employer in respect of his injury during the period of his incapacity. The object of the proposal was that in fixing the amount of the weekly payment regard should be had not only to the difference between the amount of the average weekly earnings of the workman before the accident and the average amount which he was able to earn after the accident, but also as to whether any payment in wages had been received for the injury already. In other words, it was intended that what was called smart money should be deducted from the compensation which was paid.

LORD HERSCHELL

asked if the words "not being wages" should appear in the Amendment. The arbitrator was told to take into account the man's wages, but he was rather puzzled by the words "payment not being wages."

THE PRIME MINISTER

said that the words were introduced in view of a certain ambiguity of phrase which prevailed in some districts. It was not uncommon for employers to give what was called succour, and that they gave to men who were off in consequence of ill-health and injury. To that succour was given the name "ill-wages." The words "not being wages" could not possibly do any harm.

THE EARL OF DURHAM

said he was glad the Amendment had been moved. When he moved the Amendment last week he did so because he thought it very fair to both employers and employed. He did not quite understand when the period of incapacity began—whether at the beginning of the third week after the accident, or whether the arbitrator would have to take the first two weeks into consideration. The employers in Durham had no wish to have smart money pail during the first fortnight deducted.

THE PRIME MINISTER

said the employer could, of course, give what he liked to the injured man. No words could prevent him from giving money to the injured man if he so pleased. Incapacity had nothing to do with the amount of money the man was receiving, and the definition was not controlled by the act that no claim arose in respect of the first fortnight.

THE MARQUESS OF LONDONDERRY

said he was glad to endorse what had fallen from the Earl of Durham, and also to know from the Prime Minister that he realised that the employers of Northumberland and Durham had been giving smart money to their employés. It was of great advantage that the arbitrator should know that the smart money had been a free gift by the employers for many years past, and the employers did not in any way consider it part of the wages. He agreed that the smart money should be continued. It would certainly benefit the men to a greater extent than would the Bill, for the simple reason that a man received money to go on with from the employer during the first fortnight. It had been of enormous benefit to the men in the past.

LORD HERSCHELL

thought the Amendment would enable the arbitrator to take into account the suns received during the first fortnight. He suggested the words "during the period of his incapacity after the commencement of the time for weekly payments as herein mentioned."

LORD JAMES OF HEREFORD

thought his noble and learned Friend had misunderstood the intention of the Government. It had intended to take into account moneys paid by the employer during the first fortnight.

LORD SHAND

said that if the employer said he did not -wish the money to be taken into account the arbitrator would not do it.

LORD JAMES OF HEREFORD

Certainly not.

Amendment agreed to.

LORD HERSCHELL

said that in the fourth clause there was a provision that "the undertakers shall be entitled to be indemnified by any other person who would have been liable independently of this section." The only person entitled to require medical inspection was the employer. Therefore in some cases the real person interested had no power to employ a medical man. He moved an Amendment providing that any person by whom the employer was entitled to be indemnified should have the power to employ a medical man as well as the employer.

THE PRIME MINISTER

We have no objection to that.

Amendment agreed to.

LORD BELPER

moved a new subsection providing that where a workman has given notice of an accident he shall, if required by the employer, submit himself for medical examination, and that if he refuses to do so his right of proceeding under the Act shall be suspended until he submits. He said the sub-section was introduced to meet the case mentioned by Lord Windsor. In the case of an accident it might be desirable in the opinion of the employer to find out the state of the workman immediately after notice of the accident had been given, because it might happen that the actual inquiry into the matter might not take place for several months.

LORD WINDSOR

said he would like to explain the course he was about to take. He was very grateful to the noble Lord for moving the Amendment which practically covered the ground he endeavoured to cover on the Committee stage; but at the same time the alteration in Sub-section 10 was of such a nature that if it were not pressed, he would be content to see this sub-section left out. Subsection 10 was now so much altered that on the whole he and those with whom he acted would prefer to see the Bill remain as it was, wit bout this new sub-section.

LORD BELPER

thought the House had better confine itself to this Amendment, which seemed reasonable and necessary.

Amendment agreed to.

LORD BELPER

moved a further Amendment to Sub-section (10), to the effect that if a workman objects to the employer's medical man or to his report, he may submit himself for examination to one of the, medical men appointed for the purposes of the Act, whose certificate shall be conclusive evidence of his condition.

THE PRIME MINISTER

said the clause was so essentially just that the observations of his noble Friend Lord Windsor puzzled him a little, and he would be glad to know why he objected to it.

LORD WINDSOR

said that the objection he took was to the latter words, namely, that the opinion of the Government medical man should be conclusive evidence of the man's condition. They seemed to imply that the employer could not after that go before the arbitrator.

THE PRIME MINISTER

said that the only thing settled was the condition of the man when examined by the medical man. That was only one of the facts of which the arbitrator would have to judge.

THE MARQUESS OF LONDONDERRY

said that under the clause the injured man might repudiate the employer's medical man, and insist on taking the opinion of the Government medical man, and that opinion would be absolutely conclusive.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendments made: In Sub-section (10), leave out "otherwise" and insert "in any way"; leave out from the same sub-section the words,— provided that if the workman objects to such examination he may appeal to the arbitrator whose decision shall be final."—(Lord Belper.)

LORD WINDSOR

moved the omission of Sub-section (10) in order to substitute for it the following words,— Where any weekly payment has been continued for not less than six months the liability therefor may, on the application by or on behalf of the employer, be redeemed by the payment of a lump sum, to be settled, in default of agreement, by arbitration under this Act, and such lump sum may be ordered by the committee or arbitrator to be invested or otherwise applied as above mentioned. The effect of the Amendment was that the maximum sum of 312 times the weekly payment was abolished, the fixing of the maximum being left entirely to the arbitrator; and only the employer was given the right to apply for commutation of the amount. He preferred the subsection as it stood unamended; but, as some Amendment was deemed necessary, he understood the Government were willing to accept his words.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY

I should like to know why the workman is not to apply for commutation.

THE PRIME MINISTER

The noble Lord is so accustomed to negotiations that he will understand that where something is given on one side something must be given on the other. I understand the words moved by the noble Lord are assented to by the representatives of the men. The sub-section as it stands is impossible. It has created great discontent in the minds of the employers; but the Amendment is accepted by both sides.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendments made: Insert after "payment," in Sub-section (13), "or a sum paid by way of redemption thereof"; after "law," at the end of the sub-section insert, "nor shall any claim be set off against the same."—(Lord Belper.)