Lords Sitting of 2 July 1897

PRIVATE BUSINESS.

  DUBLIN CORPORATION BILL.
  Order for the Third Reading read.
  *THE EARL OF MAYOhad given notice of the following Amendments:—
  Clause 9,—

  POWER OF TOWNSHIPS TO APPLY FOR SUPPLY AT UNIFORM PRICE.
  Notwithstanding anything in this Act or in any of the scheduled Acts, it shall be competent for the Commissioners of any of the townships supplied with water by the Corporation to apply to the Corporation to be supplied with water for all purposes at the uniform rate or price of twopence and four-tenths of a penny for every thousand gallons so supplied, and the Corporation shall thereupon be bound to afford the supply on such terms as aforesaid instead of on the terms as to payment provided by the scheduled Acts:
  Provided that after the expiration of ten years front the passing of this Act the rate or price named in this section may on the application of the Commissioners of any township or of the Corporation be revised by the Board of Trade after such local or other inquiry as the Board may think fit.
  To leave out the word "ten" ("ten years") and insert the word "three" ("three years").
  Clause 10,—

  AS TO PAYMENT BY COMMISSIONERS OF KINGSTOWN.
  The Commissioners of the township of Kingstown in the event of their being supplied with water by the Corporation under the provisions of the last preceding section shall, in respect of the sum of six thousand pounds expended by the Corporation in the purchase of the rights and property of the Kingstown Waterworks Company, pay yearly to the Corporation a sum equal to the annual interest on the said sum of six thousand pounds at such rate as may be agreed, or failing agreement, as may be determined by an arbitrator to be appointed by the Local Government Board for Ireland.
  To leave out the Clause.

  THE SECOND SCHEDULE
  PERCENTAGE OF POPULATION TO BE ADDED IN CERTAIN OF THE TOWNSHIPS.

  Name of Township.

  Additional Percentage.

  Bray

  …

  30 per centum.

  Clontarf

  …

  20 per centum.

  Dalkey

  …

  20 per centum.

  Kingstown

  …

  10per centum.

  Pembroke

  …

  5 per centum.

  After the word "Kingstown," to insert the words "and Blackrock," and to leave out opposite the word "Kingstown" the figure "10" and to insert "20." He said with regard to these Amendments he statement to make to their Lordships. The Bill had been before the House last year, and had been threshed out by four Committees. He had consulted with the Chairman of Committees in regard to these Amendments, and his noble Friend advised him that the Bill having now been before four Committees in this and the other House, it would under the circumstances not be in accordance with precedents to allow Amendments to be inserted at the present stage. His noble Friends, Lords Pembroke and De Vesci, who were interested in the Bill, would be very glad to have Clause 9 amended by substituting "three" for "ten" in line 12, but under the circumstances he desired to withdraw the Amendments. He did so with some reluctance, but he felt that Lord Morley was right in insisting that the force and authority their Lordships usually attached to the decision of a Committee should not be disturbed. This was not the first time this Session he had felt the noble Lord's restraining influence.
  THE EARL OF MORLEY (CHAIRMAN of (COMMITTEES)thanked his noble Friend for withdrawing the Amendments, and thought he had exercised a wise discretion. The House would have been hardly

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  inclined to review a decision of its Committee arrived at after careful consideration.
  Bill read a Third time, passed, and sent to the Commons.

  MARKET GARDENERS' COMPENSATION (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  *LORD REAY, in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, said that by the Act of 1895 the English Agricultural Holdings Act of 1883 was amended in order that it might be made more applicable to market gardening. The object of the present Bill was a very simple one. It was to assimilate the Scotch market gardeners to the English market gardeners in relation to their holdings. The House would notice that there was every guarantee that the holding would not be let, or treated as a market garden, unless previous consent in writing had been given that the holding should be considered as such. The erection or enlargement of buildings was taken out of Part I. of the Schedule of the principal Act and was placed in Part III. of the Schedule, but only when such buildings were for the purpose of the trade or business of a market gardener. For greater security the vegetable crops (placed in Part III. with other improvements relating to market gardens) must continue productive for two or more years. That was not in the Measure which was introduced in this House in 1895 by the noble Earl opposite. For climatic reasons rhubarb was mentioned instead of asparagus in Section 3 (3) (iv.) The economic aspect of the question was rather important. Market gardening had now become a thriving and growing industry in Scotland, but the imports from abroad were still very considerable. In 1896 the value of imported potatoes amounted to about £908,000; of onions to close upon £682,000; of vegetables to £1,284,753; and of fruit to nearly £4,000,000. The main object of the Bill was to secure that market gardens should at the end of the lease be returned to the landlord in a satisfactory condition by encouraging the tenant to make and to maintain improvements. The situation in Scotland was now a very different one from what it was in 1435, when Regnault Gérard, Charles VII.'s Ambassador to James I., presented the Queen
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  with three casks of chestnuts, pears, and apples of divers sorts, who was much pleased, there being little fruit in Scotland.
  *THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (Lord BALFOUR)said he did not think it necessary to add anything to the explanation which the noble Lord had given of the purposes of this Bill. During its progress through the other House certain Amendments had been accepted which removed the objections which had at first been entertained, and it passed through that House practically as an agreed Measure. Therefore he hoped their Lordships would give it a Second Reading.
  Read 2a (according to Order), and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.

  POOR LAW OFFICERS' SUPERANNUATION ACT (1896) AMENDMENT BILL.
  LORD GLENESKsaid this was a short Bill of only two clauses. It was purely an amending Bill. Last year an Act was passed of a very beneficial nature enabling Poor Law officers to obtain superannuation without touching public moneys in any shape or form. This Act applied to all officers under the Poor Law, and it now appeared that there were classes of officers, especially nurses in the infirmaries, who did not wish to be bound in that way, and very naturally so, because, of course, the nurses did not wish to begin and end their career under the Poor Law. These two clauses provided, the one that the nurses should not be bound by the Act, and the other that any money which had been deducted from their salaries in conformity with the provisions should be returned to them.
  THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (Viscount CROSS)said that, in the absence of Lord Harris, he had to say, on behalf of the Local Government Board, that they had no objection whatever to this Bill.
  Read 2a (according to Order), and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.

  EXTRAORDINARY TITHE BILL.
  Considered in Committee (according to Order); Bill reported without Amendment; and re-committed to the Standing Committee.
  FISHERIES ACT AMENDMENT BILL [H.L.]
  Read 3a (according to Order), passed, and sent to the Commons.
  MERCHANT SHIPPING (UNDERMANNING) BILL.
  Considered in Committee (according to Order); Bill reported without Amendment; and re-committed to the Standing Committee.

  PROVISIONAL ORDER (SCOTLAND) BILL [H.L.]
  *LORD BALFOUR*LORD BALFOUR moved that the following Lords formed the Select Committee upon this Bill:—The Earl of Lauderdale, the Earl of Carnwath, the Earl of Morley, the Earl of Camperdown, the Marquess of Lothian, Lord Balfour, Lord Reay, Lord Tweedmouth, and Lord Thring.
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNdid not object to any of the names proposed, but asked whether it was not desirable that some more noble Lords representing England and Ireland should be appointed to serve upon the Committee. The Bill was nominally a Scotch Bill, but at the same time it effected a change in the system of conducting private business which, if it passed with regard to Scotland would, he apprehended, be extended in some form or other both to England and Ireland. Under the circumstances, it seemed to him it was desirable to have representatives of England upon the Committee in addition to the Earl of Morley and Lord Thring.
  THE PRIME MINISTER (The Marquess of SALISBURY)said that his impression was that, as there was no real controversial question involved, this matter would be more suitably dealt with by the Scotch Lords than by any other Committee that could be arranged. The suggestion of the noble Earl that the enactments would afterwards be extended to England was, he thought, animated by an undue distrust of their Lordships' own powers. If there were any fear of Scotch provisions being extended to England, England was quite strong enough to take care of herself. He therefore would not depart from what appeared to be, in a matter of this technical detail, the soundest plan—namely, that those who
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  were acquainted with Scotch business would be the most capable to examine into the suitability of the provisions of the Bill.
  Motion agreed to; the Committee to meet on Monday next, at Half-past Three o'clock, and to appoint their own Chairman.

  BERRIEW SCHOOL BILL.
  Brought from the Commons; Read 1a, and to be printed.—(No. I40.)
  METROPOLITAN AND OTHER POLICE COURTS BILL.
  Brought from the Commons; Read 1a, and to he printed.—(No. 141.)

  POLICE (PROPERTY) BILL.
  Brought from the Commons; Read 1a, and to be printed.—(No. 142.)
  House Adjourned at Ten Minutes before Five o'Clock, to Monday next, a Quarter before Eleven o'Clock.