§ Where, on an application to fix the fair rent for a holding, it is proved to the Court that the tenant of the holding, by virtue of his tenancy, has, by the permission of the landlord, whether with or without payment, been accustomed to exercise any profit a prendre, easement, privilege of turbary, or other privilege over land belonging to the landlord, and it appears to be necessary for the reasonable enjoyment of the holding that he should not be deprived of what he has so exercised, and that the interests of the landlord in portions of his estate other than that in which the said profit a prendre, easement, or privilege is to he exercised will not he thereby injuriously affected, the Court may, after giving the landlord and tenant of the holding and any tenant of the land an opportunity of being heard, make an order for securing the profit a prendre, easement, or privilege to the tenant of the holding, upon such terms, as to rent or otherwise, and in such manner as the Court think just, and such order shall be binding on all estates and interests in the said land.
6*THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (The MARQUSS of Lansdowne), brought up the following new clause, which the Government had agreed to substitute for Clause 8 in the Bill:—
8. Where, on an application to fix the fair rent for a holding, it is proved to the Court that the tenant of the holding, by virtue of his tenancy, has, by the permission of the landlord, been accustomed to exercise any privilege over land belonging to the landlord, the withholding of which privilege would diminish the value of the holding to the tenant, the landlord shall be required to elect whether he will or will not allow the tenant to exercise as of right during the statutory term, under the same restrictions and conditions as heretofore, that which he previously exercised by permission, and if the landlord consents to so allow, such exercise shall be secured to the tenant by the order fixing the fair rent, and if the landlord refuses to so allow, the fair rent shall be fixed having regard to such refusal.He said that last night he put the House in possession of the substance of the new clause, and of the reasons which led them to substitute it for the clause in the Bill.
*THE EARL OF BELMOREsaid he and the other Irish peers appreciated the spirit in which Lord Lansdowne had met them with regard to turbary and other easements, and in principle they accepted the new clause, but there were two verbal Amendments which they desired inserted.
§ LORD MACNAGHTENsaid the proposed new clause met the objections advanced against the former clause, but he asked that slight Amendments which he had handed to Lord Lansdowne in the Lobby might be inserted. He suggested that words in line 6 should read "any privilege withheld which would materially diminish the value of holdings." Then in line 10, in place of the words "under the same restrictions and conditions as heretofore," he would insert "or under such conditions, not being conditions more onerous to the landlord, as the Court may think fair and reasonable." There might be cases where the former conditions would not apply in a new state of circumstances, and he would leave the settling of the conditions in that case to the Land Commission to determine what was fair and reasonable under the circumstances. He moved accordingly.
§ *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEsaid there was no objection to inserting the word "materially" in line 6, but the other Amendment seemed to him to be superfluous, because as the clause now stood the privilege was to be exercised "under the same conditions and restrictions as heretofore." Surely the object of the words was to preserve the status quo, and it seemed to him that to import new conditions into the bargain would not tend to the amicable arrangement of these matters.
LORD MACNACHTENsaid he would provide for new conditions "if the Court thinks them reasonable." If the Court thought the old conditions would not be workable, it would be open to it to propose new conditions. The initiative would rest entirely with the Court, and new conditions would only be proposed if the Court thought them reasonable. But if the noble Marquess thought the Amendment superfluous he would not press it.
§ *THE EARL OF ERNEsaid the proposed new clause simply carried out with regard to turbary what had been the practice on the estates with which he was acquainted, and, therefore, he thought it might be accepted as a fair and reasonable settlement of this much vexed question.
§ *EARL SPENCERsaid he did not object to the clause as introduced by the Government. There had been strong objections to it, and to meet them the noble Marquess had brought up the clause in a new form. He would remind the House that this legislation was not aimed at reasonable landlords, but at unreasonable landlords who could not come to reasonable terms with their tenants. With regard to the last part of the clause, it seemed to him that if the landlord was unreasonable, and refused to come to terms, the Court had no power to enforce any terms. So that if an unreasonable landlord refused to come to terms with his tenant, the latter might have a holding without any right of turbary at all.
§ *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEIn that case, surely, the Land Commission would value the holdings on the presumption that the right or privilege was denied. The thing is self-acting.
§ *EARL SPENCERThen it is not worth having. The tenant may not be 8 able to come to terms at all, and may be driven to go off the purchase altogether or find himself with a rent fixed without any powers of having turbary at all.
*THE EARL OF BELMOREsaid the noble Lord overlooked the fact that the tenant was not tied down in a country where there was bog to any particular bog. If the Court thought the landlord's conduct unreasonable it would reduce the tenant's rent to enable the tenant to have money to pay for turf bog elsewhere.
VISCOUNT POWERSCOURTthought, with all deference to the legal knowledge of Lord Macnaghten, that it would be bettor to omit "materially."
Word "materially" inserted; other Amendments, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Clause 8, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
§ Clause 9,—