§ The Acts specified in the Schedule to this Act are hereby repealed to the extent mentioned in the third column of that Schedule.
§ Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.
VISCOUNT TEMPLETOWNmoved to insert the following new clause:—
The present system of appointing Court valuers from amongst the land Sub-Commissioners shall cease, and in future the Court valuers shall be permanent officials of the Crown, and be independent of the Land Commission.He said he did not propose to trouble their Lordships with a detailed statement of the many facts which would support him in asking the Government to include this clause in the Bill, but he felt that he dealt with such an important and grave question that he by no means abandoned his right to deal with the matter again at some future time. He asked the Government whether they would, between now and the Report Stage, consider whether they could meet the case in some degree, because it was a very strong case indeed. They had now Sub-Commissioners acting as valuers, and valuers acting as sub-Commissioners, and therefore they wore revising each other's rents at very short intervals. That was a process winch could not commend itself to any section of the people in Great Britain. He ventured to think that such a moderate suggestion as his must commend itself to the conciliatory attitude of the Government, and if they would only assure him that the mattter should be considered, he would have very great pleasure in not pressing the clause now.
§ *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEthought the noble Lord was well advised in not pressing the clause, because, obviously, in its present shape it could not be incorporated in the Bill. The noble Lord suggested that they should consider the question and deal with it on Report. They could not possibly undertake to bring up new clauses or to facilitate the introduction of new clauses dealing with such questions as this dealt with on Report.
§ LORD CASTLETOWNsaid the question involved in the proposed clause was 90 a most important one. Land was the great commodity in Ireland, and, therefore, as valuers of land the best men should be secured. The noble Lord simply asked that the Court Valuers, who were practically the last resort the landlord or tenant had when he wished to obtain an efficient and sound valuation, should be absolutely independent of outside pressure—that they should, in point of fact, be servants of the State; that they should be men of unimpeachable character, who possessed a thorough knowledge of their business. He hoped the noble Marquess would reconsider his decision.
§ THE EARL OF WINCHILSEAtrusted the Government would consent to that portion of the clause which proposed to enact that the Sub-Commissioners should not be appointed Court Valuers. It was not reasonable that a man should be a Sub-Commissioner in one case and a Valuer in another case.
§ THE EARL OF WINCHILSEAsaid that if that was so a great deal of the case of his noble Friend was destroyed.
VISCOUNT TEMPLETOWNremarked that he could lay upon the Table a list of men who had acted as Valuers and Sub-Commissioners.
VISCOUNT CLIFDENunderstood that all that was asked was that the Court Valuers should be men above suspicion. Surely that was as much to the advantage of the tenant as the landlord.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELANDsaid no one denied the necessity of having upright and efficient Court Valuers. To recognise that fact was one thing, but to accept this clause was quite another thing. The clause would create a new class of permanent officiais, and, therefore, it could not be accepted without great consideration.
§ *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEsaid the noble Lord suggested that the Court Valuers should necessarily be independent of the Land Commission. The Valuers were officers of the Land Commission, and surely there was nothing wrong in being dependent upon the Commission.
§ THE EARL OF WINCHILSEApointed out that what his noble Friend objected to was the system of appointing Court Valuers from amongst the Sub-Commissioners.
§ *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEasked what was the objection to a gentleman acting as a Court Valuer and a Sub-Commissioner, provided he did not in any case act in the two capacities.
VISCOUNT CLIFDENMy objection is that a Sub-Commissioner always cuts down rents, and I do not think that is a fair man. [A laugh.]
§ Clause, by leave, withdrawn.
VISCOUNT TEMPLETOWNhad the following clause on the Paper, but said he would not move it:—
After the passing of this Act every landlord and tenant to whom this Act applies shall have liberty, after the rehearing of their case by the Chief Commissioners, to appeal on the question of 'value' without a case having been stated to a court consisting of not less than two Judges of the High Court, assisted by the head for the time being of the Government Valuation Department as assessor.
§ LORD CASTLETOWNmoved to insert the following clause:—
When, upon the hearing of an application to fix a fair rent, the court is of opinion that the tenant of a holding has wilfully or through neglect caused the said holding to become deteriorated, the court shall thereupon dismiss the said application.He said that was a corollary on what was accepted by the Government on the previous day when it was agreed to insert after "condition" in Clause 1, the words "as to cultivation, deterioration, or otherwise."
§ *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEwas not prepared to accept the Amendment, which went very far indeed. It seemed to him they had done all that was necessary in directing the Court to take into consideration the condition of the holding. He did not see how they would justify the proposal that the Court should absolutely dismiss an application simply because it found the holding had been improperly farmed.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
92§ Bill, as amended, ordered to be reported to the House; Standing Committee negatived; The Report of Amendments to be received on Monday next; Standing Order No. XXIX. to be considered in order to its being dispensed with; and Bill to be printed as amended.—[No. 238.]
§ *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEOn Monday.
§ *EARL SPENCERAnd the other stages?
§ *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEI think it would be hardly fair to press your Lordships to take the Third Reading on Monday, but in case that should be your Lordships' pleasure when the time comes, I will now give notice that I shall move to suspend the Standing Orders on Monday. I shall, of course, be in the hands of the House to make such arrangements as will suit your Lordships' convenience.