HL Deb 07 August 1896 vol 44 cc24-7

In the case of any ejectment which shall he or has been brought for the non-payment of the rent of a holding to which the Land Law Acts as amended by this Act apply, where the rent in arrear exceeds two years' rent, the tenant may pay, tender, deposit, or lodge under Sections 60 to 71 of the Landlord and Tenant Law Amendment Act (Ireland) 1860, the sum of two years' rent instead of the sums therein respectively required to be paid, tendered, deposited, or lodged, and upon such tender, payment, deposit, or lodgment the tenant shall be in the same position under those sections as if two years' rent were the sum due for rent up to the gale day preceding such tender, payment, deposit, or lodgment; and the balance of the rent then due shall not be recovered by ejectment for non-payment of rent or distress.

VISCOUNT DE VESCI

moved, after the words "any ejectment which," to insert the words "after the expiration of two years from the date of the passing of this Act." He did not think it would he a hardship to the tenant that the operation of the clause should be suspended for two years.

*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE

asked whether this Amendment was a desirable one? It would not come into operation until two years after the passing of the Act. The effect might be to induce a number of landlords to exact from their tenants large payments of arrears exceeding the allowance of two years laid down in the clause. That would be an unfortunate state of things to bring about. A similar Amendment was introduced in the House of Commons by a highly-respected Irish landlord, Mr. Smith-Barry, and it was not pressed.

VISCOUNT DE VESCI

said it was in the Bill of the late Government. It was only suggested in order to give time for the landlord and tenant to come to some arrangement. He approved of the principle of the clause, but thought it rather sudden to bring it into operation at once.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

VISCOUNT DE VESCI

moved to insert after the words "two years' rent," the words "together with the costs or the undertakings in respect thereof by the said Act required." He thought that the words must have been left out by some inadvertence. Surely they did not intend to deprive the landlord of his costs?

*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE

was told that the Amendment was not necessary, and that the clause did not touch the question at all.

VISCOUNT DE VESCI

did not see how the costs were provided for.

LORD MACNAGHTEN

said as the clause stood, it was clear that the costs would not be recoverable. [Cheers.] Why not make it clear by putting the words in the Bill? ["Hear, hear!"]

THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND

promised to consider the matter before Report.

VISCOUNT DE VESCI

urged that the words should be inserted now—["hear, hear!"]—and then they could consider the words on Report.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND

said he must oppose that. It was abundantly clear that the clause did not touch the matter.

LORD MACNAGHTEN

asked how were the costs to be recovered. Did the noble and learned Lord intend that the landlord should bring a separate action for the costs? ["Hear, hear!"]

THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND

repeated that the question of costs was not interfered with by the clause.

THE EARL OF MAYO

said he understood the noble and learned Lord would arrange some form of words by which the landlord could recover costs.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND

said it was not intended to touch the question of costs, and they would take care to see that the clause was so worded as to make the point abundantly clear. ["Hear, hear."]

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

THE EARL OF PORTSMOUTH

moved, after the words "the sum of two years' rent," to insert the words, or in any case in which the tenant has been allowed the benefit of the usage known as the hanging gale the sum of two years rent in addition to the account of the hanging gale or gales of rent. There was a hanging gale on a great number of estates, and it would create a great hardship to tenants and landlords if what had become a custom—and was looked upon as a custom by the tenants—was suddenly called up on the part of the landlords. He hoped his noble Friend would consider the point, and, if he did not approve the exact words of the Amendment, that he would on Report give effect to the principle of the Amendment.

*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE

said he was afraid the words proposed would not do. He believed their effect would be to oblige the tenant to pay, not two years as at present but three years. The point was an extremely intricate one. He would like to consider the words, and attempt to devise something which would meet the case. He did not at all desire to disturb the custom on an estate where that custom had been that the rent was paid a certain number of months in arrear.

*THE EARL OF BELMORE

said it did not exactly follow that the person succeeding to an estate was entitled to a hanging gale.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

VISCOUNT DE VESCI

moved to leave out the words "such tender, payment, deposit, or lodgment," and to insert the words "the issue of the writ or process of ejectment." The object of the Amendment was that the landlord should not be the loser of any rent that might accrue after the proceedings had been taken.

*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE

said the exact meaning of his noble Friend's Amendment was not quite obvious. Perhaps this was one of those points which they might consider later.

VISCOUNT DE VESCI

said it was to provide that the rent that went on accruing should not be lost.

*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE

said he was afraid the Government could not accept the Amendment.

VISCOUNT DE VESCI

asked leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

VISCOUNT DE VESCI

moved to leave out the words "then due," and to insert instead thereof the words "due to such gale day shall be recoverable by the landlord as if the same were a debt due to him by the occupying tenant." His object was to restore the words which appeared in the original draft of the Bill. It very often happened that there were cases between landlord and tenant where there was no privity of contract, and there would be nothing to prove that this was a debt. The Amendment practically provided a declaration by the Court that this balance of rent was a debt due by the tenant to the landlord and recoverable.

*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE

said the Government had no objection to the Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

VISCOUNT DE VESCI

moved to add at the end of the clause the following words:— Provided, however, that this section shall not apply to any proceeding in ejectment in which an Order has been or shall be made under the 30th Section of the Land Law (Ireland) Act, 1887, nor to any arrears of rent the subject of any such Order. The object of the Amendment was to provide that this Order of the Court under the Act of 1887 should not be invalidated in any way by proceedings under this section.

*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE

said the Government had no objection to the Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause 15, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 16,—