Lords Sitting of 7 March 1895

ST. ANDREWS UNIVERSITY.
THE LORD STEWARD OF HOUSEHOLD (The Marquess of BREADALBANE)brought up the following reply from Her Majesty to the Address voted by their Lordships, relative to the University of St. Andrews;—
"I have received your Address praying that the reference to the Duncan Burseries in the University of St. Andrews may be omitted from the Schedule to the Ordinance No.57 (General 19 Regulations as to Bursaries, Scholarships, and Fellowships), made by the Scotch University Commissioners on July 30, 1894. In conformity with your advice I will withhold my assent from that part of the Ordinance to which your Address relates."

EVIDENCE IN CRIMINAL CASES BILL [H.L.]
Bill to amend the Law of by Evidence, presented by Lord Halsbury; read 1a; and to be printed. [No. 32.]
SCHOOL BOARD RATE.
VISCOUNT CROSSpresented a petition, which, he said, was of some importance, as it came from the Manchester School Board, to the effect that, in the interests of education and economy, and more especially in the interests of justice and religious freedom, the School Board rate, which was collected from all citizens, without distinction, should be shared in by all alike, and that the benefits of the rate should be enjoyed equally in all schools, whether Board or voluntary schools, suitable arrangements being made for the inspection of voluntary schools as to the secular part of the education given by the representatives of the ratepayers.

SEED POTATOES SUPPLY (IRELAND) BILL.
LORD RIBBLESDALE, in moving that this Bill be read a Second time, said that the Bill was drafted in almost the same words as the Acts of 1880 and 1890, and it bore the same title. There was, however, this difference: that in the Act of 1890 there was a clause giving the Local Government Board the power to carry out the Bill in the event of
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default on the part of poor law guardians, and that clause was not in this Bill. The object of the Bill was to give the guardians in the poor law unions power to apply to the Local Government Board for a sum of money out of the Local Loans Fund, out of which to make advances to small occupiers and cultivators for the purpose of purchasing seed potatoes in the event of those individuals not being able to find the money owing to the failure of their crops or their own poverty. Summarising the provisions of the Bill his Lordship remarked that it was important to notice that the Local Government Board might nominate persons to satisfy themselves that the land into which the seed potatoes were to be put had been properly prepared, and was ready for sowing; and was an inducement to a cultivator to pay ready money an abatement of one-fifth was to be made in the price of the seed potatoes, which however, were to be sold on terms that would cover the cost including carriage and storage. The Lord Lieutenant had power to postpone the repayment of instalments by guardians, and also to appoint inspectors to see that the conditions on which the loans were made were satisfactorily carried out.
LORD ASHBOURNEsaid, he did not think their Lordships would have any difficulty in readily assenting to the Motion. Their Lordships were always anxious to deal expeditiously with any measure for the relief of distress. It was obvious that the success of this measure would largely depend upon its careful administration, on seeing that nothing was done to discourage thrift, and that everything was done to ensure caution, care, and economy. He was sure that these objects were present to the minds of the Government, and that they were most anxious to see that the measure should be carefully, wisely, and prudently administered. He noticed that by Clause 8 provision was made for the appointment of officers who, he supposed, would be seed distributors. It was obvious that they would play a great part in the administration of this money. He should like to know from the noble Lord in charge of the Bill how many inspectors it was contemplated to appoint, also what remuneration it was intended to give them; and further,

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whether there would be any objection to laying on the Table or publishing in the Dublin Gazette, or in the Press, the names and previous occupations of those who were selected to fulfil these duties.
LORD RIBBLESDALEsaid, he quite agreed that the whole efficacy of the Bill would depend upon its careful administration; and he could hardly assume that it would be brought forward at all unless every care were going to be taken that it should be properly administered. As to the specific question asked he was not able to say how many officers would be appointed, and he thought that in this respect the Bill was framed with some latitude so as not unnecessarily to tie the hands of the Irish Office, and to leave them at liberty to appoint as many as might be necessary.
LORD ASHBOURNEsaid, it was openly stated that a number of inspectors had been already selected, and that their names were known to many people, and that was the reason why he asked the question.
LORD RIBBLESDALEsaid, he had no personal knowledge that that was so, but he would make a representation to Mr. Morley of what the noble and learned Lord had said.
LORD ORANMORE AND BROWNEsaid, he hoped measures would be taken to avoid difficulties which occurred on the occasion of the last distribution of seed potatoes, when no proper lists were kept of those who received them, when some of the seed potatoes were nearly useless from; alleged want of care in the carriage, wherefore there was great difficulty in collecting the rates from those who had been supplied.
Bill then read 2a.

RICHMOND LUNATIC ASYLUM, DUBLIN.
LORD ASHBOURNE: I beg to ask whether there are now in the Richmond Lunatic Asylum, Dublin, nearly 400 inmates in excess of the nominal limits of legitimate accommodation; whether it has been arranged to build a new asylum at Portrame, which will accommodate about half the inmates now at Richmond; if it is under consideration to provide for the residue of the inmates, either by altering and re-constructing
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the existing asylum, or seeking a new site; what has been the medical history of the existing asylum; is the soil in a healthy state; are the grounds sufficient for the needs of an asylum; and what would be the estimated cost of altering or re-constructing the existing asylum, so as to satisfy modern requirements?
LORD RIBBLESDALE: It is, substantially, as the noble Lord states in his first question. The number of patients at present resident in Richmond Asylum is 1486. There is provision in the permanent buildings for about 1100. Arrangements have been made to provide commodious and suitable temporary buildings for the residue. Portions of these buildings have been completed, and are in occupation, and the remaining portions will be handed over immediately. It has been decided to build a new asylum at Portrane for at least 1,000 patients. This will provide accommodation for about half the insane of the district. It has been decided to re-model, improve, and enlarge the existing buildings at Richmond so as to accommodate the residue of the insane population. Owing to overcrowding, the medical history of the existing asylum has not been favourable. It has been unfavourably reported four times, in 1887, 1888, 1890, and 1891. There is no reason, however, to suppose that the soil is in an unhealthy state, except to a very limited extent in the immediate vicinity of old sewers, and this it is proposed to remedy by execution of suitable, works. The grounds are not at present sufficient in extent for the needs of the asylum, but it is contemplated to increase the area by the purchase of additional land. The estimated cost of altering and re-modelling the existing asylum, so as to satisfy modern requirements, is about £60,000.
THE EARL OF ERNEsaid, it was a matter of notoriety that the asylum was built on an extremely unhealthy site, which was saturated with sewage, and he would put it to the Government whether it would not be better and cheaper in the long run to abandon the site altogether, and to build a new asylum on a more healthy site.
House adjourned at Fifteen Minutes to Five o'clock.