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LORD STANMORE moved for Papers relating to the administration of Uganda, and observed that, in renewing his application in another Session of Parliament, he was not without anticipation that his pertinacity might be attended with a favourable result. There had not been any Papers or Despatches communicated to either House of Parliament with regard to proceedings in Uganda since the departure of Sir Gerald Portal from that country. It was not unreasonable to expect that some portion of the correspondence should now be laid before this House, more especially when one recollected with what expedition in other cases of a similar character, where the responsibility of a Protectorate or of annexation had been assumed by this country, the despatches had been communicated to the public. If Papers could not be presented, he hoped, at all events, the Secretary of State would be able to impart some information to the House. Was it the case, as reported, that some extension had taken place in the district over which we had determined to exercise a Protectorate? The question, however, which was of real importance to Uganda and to us, was with regard to the communications between, that country and the sea. From the tenour of observations by Ministers he did not entertain any sanguine hope that the railway, the line of which had been surveyed, would be undertaken by the Government, but at the same time his hopes were somewhat raised by an expression of opinion on the part of the Lord President of the Council, who in a letter to the Anti-Slavery Society stated that—
''all he had committed himself to was that it did not seem requisite to take immediate steps during the present year—
for the construction of the railway. But that was last year. The consideration which Her Majesty's Government had given to the subject must surely have come to an end now; and, therefore, he
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ventured to ask whether it was intended that a sum for the
construction of the railway should be placed upon the Estimates of the present year; and, if not, what steps were being taken to improve the communication between the Victoria Nyanza and the sea? He would contrast for a moment the action taken by the much-abused Chartered Company and by Her Majesty's Government and their officials in Uganda. Some 200 miles of good road had been constructed at the private expense of the late Sir W. Mackinnon; fifty miles more had been constructed to meet that road, and the junction was probably by this time effected; so that there were 250 miles of good road made through the Company's territory towards Uganda. But what was the case on the other side? As far as he could learn hardly any, if any, steps had been taken towards improving the road between that point and the shores of Lake Nyanza. If that was not so, and almost the only persons from whom information was received, were officers of the Chartered Company and missionaries resident in that country—who might not, perhaps, be altogether unbiassed witnesses—it was very much the fault of Her Majesty's Government in not producing' the information which would show where credit ought to be given if credit was due. A very pretty quarrel had arisen. The Chartered Company maintained that as Her Majesty's Government had limited and marked the boundaries of the Protectorate, the Company came again into possession of all that part of the country which they had formerly administered. Holding that view, they sent an Administrator there. When the Administrator arrived he found the British Commandant in possession, and he prudently did not attempt to exercise any functions of administration. Nevertheless, he was summarily deported from the district by order of Colonel Colville, the Commissioner. That might have been very just and proper; but however little right the Chartered Company might have to administer the government of that district, it surely was not contended they had not a perfect right to trade there. And if it were the case, as alleged in the letter of the Agent of the Company, that his private house and the stores in which the Company had deposited its
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goods were destroyed by the Commandant of the Imperial Government, it seemed to him the case called for explanation. According to the letter from which he had quoted, this British Commandant was one of Colonel Colville's domestic servants, and if that were true it might be a question whether he could properly be trusted with such powers as those which were certainly exercised by him, and which, he presumed, he rightly possessed. He had strong reason to believe that, on this occasion, Papers would not be denied; and, therefore, they should be able to form a judgment on the subject. He hoped it might be the case that the Government had taken more care for the keeping up communication between the lake and the coast than they had reason to suppose. In the absence of any such evidence the wildest and most absurd reports gained circulation, one of which stated that an agreement had been entered into by which a railway was to be constructed in such a position that the effect would be to drive all the commerce of East Africa from a British to a German port, and leave Uganda at the mercy of a foreign Power. He simply mentioned such a report to show its absurdity. He pointed out that he moved only for Papers relative to the administration of Uganda, and did not ask for any of the correspondence still pending between the Government and the Chartered Company. The late Sir Gerald Portal had told them that, before they could effect any real improvement in prosperity or commerce, check the slave-trade, and reap the benefit of that material progress, a system of transport must be made in Uganda, and the only means of effecting this was by the construction of a railway. The delays on the part of the Government in coming to a decision on this question had been a source of great cost to the British taxpayer; for, whereas by the present transport system it cost £90,000 a year to convey stores to Uganda, the amount of interest payable on the loans necessary for the construction of the railway would only be £47,000 a year. He begged to move that Papers be laid on the Table relating to the administration of Uganda
*THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Earl of KIMBERLEY)I am glad to be able to in- 696 form my noble Friend that there is no objection to laying the Papers on the Table of the House. I will now answer one or two of my noble Friend's remarks. One is capable of a very simple answer. He asked whether any extension had been given to the Protectorate, as announced last year. My answer is, there has been no extension. My noble Friend probably has in view the operations which have taken place especially in Unyoro, It is perfectly true that, at present, our occupation extends to a certain part of Unyoro, though not included in the Protectorate. That occupation has taken place simply for the reason that a war is going on with the Chief of Unyoro, with whom, unfortunately, it is impossible to come to any terms; and for the protection of Uganda it is absolutely necessary that a certain portion of the country of Unyoro should be occupied by our forces. The other point which my noble Friend referred to was a subject already very familiar to your lordships—namely, the construction of a railway from the coast to Uganda. I was rather pleased at the last remarks my noble Friend made, for he apparently demonstrated, to his own satisfaction, that we should save money immediately by the construction of a railway. I can assure him that if he will prove to us and the Treasury that the immediate result of constructing a railway would be to relieve us from a pecuniary burden, it would be, I think, the most conclusive argument I have yet heard in favour of the railway. I am sorry to say I have no anticipations whatever of any such immediate results. Whatever might be the advantages of the construction of a railway, I do not think it could be expected that for a considerable time it would pay its expenses. I have nothing to tell my noble Friend about the railway except this, that it has been by no means lost sight of by the Government, and, as my noble Friend quite naturally surmises, certain reports to which he refers as to some agreement with Germany about a joint railway have no foundation whatever. No one would dispute the advantage to Uganda of such a railway as that which it is asked should be constructed, but I am afraid I must ask my noble Friend to wait a little longer before we can make any announcement on that subject. As 697 regards Uganda generally, I must say that the conduct of our officers there had been beyond praise. As far as we know and undoubtedly we get but fitful reports at considerable intervals from Uganda—the administration of the Protectorate under Colonel Colville, who, I am sorry to say, is ill and is going down to the coast in consequence of that illness, has been, admirably conducted. No doubt he was principally occupied, through no fault at all of ours, with the conduct of a war which was by no means without difficulty. That war has been conducted with great success at very moderate cost and with results, as regards the safety of Uganda, entirely satisfactory. With regard to internal affairs there has not been much to report. The country appears to be tranquil, and I think there is every reason to believe the people are satisfied with the present system under which they are administered. The number of our functionaries there is necessarily very limited, and it says much for the, vigour and enterprise which characterise our officers in remote parts of the world, that so small a number of men are able to exercise so large and salutary an influence and to discharge their duties under undoubtedly great difficulties in such an admirable manner. My noble Friend referred to the difference of opinion between us and the Chartered Company as to the extent of the country now under the Company's Administration. My noble Friend correctly stated the claim of the Company, which is that they should re-occupy all the territory outside the Protectorate. We entirely decline to admit any such claim on their part. We hold that, having deliberately abandoned considerable portions of territory placed under their administration, by the Charter, they cannot be allowed to resume the administration of that territory. It was true an officer was sent by the Company to Kavirondo and was informed he could not exercise any jurisdiction. whatever in that place. As regards the details of what has happened, we have not yet received a report from Colonel Colville on the subject. We have only heard the Company's version, and therefore we refrain from commenting on the particular manner in which the officer was prevented from continuing his enterprise. I do not think there is anything 698 more I could usefully add on this occasion. As I am about to present Papers, my noble Friend will have an opportunity of seeing what they contain and of making any observations upon them.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI have heard the statement of the noble Earl with very considerable regret. It seems to me to bear a very unhappy relation to the hopes which were excited in us from the same Bench two years ago. The tone has entirely changed—the tone of hopefulness of an early construction of some means of communication has disappeared, and in its place there is an intimation that we must wait for any fulfilment of those hopes until the spirit of the Treasury can be conciliated to the undertaking. I was sorry to hear the utterance of that ill-omened word. I know that when the Treasury lays its hand on any matter concerning the future development of the British Empire, the chances of an Imperial policy are small; and I am bound to add that I do not think, whatever the natural tendencies of the Treasury may be, they are likely to be diminished or corrected under the guidance of which they at present have the advantage. I think Her Majesty's Government are dealing lightly and cavalierly with a very grave matter. It is a question in which time is all important, and time is being allowed to run through our fingers. The noble Earl treated the matter as if it was purely a question of administration. Of course the question, of administration interests us very much, and we hope that great advantage may be conferred upon the natives by the introduction of English Government, and the enforcement of the peace which accompanies English rule; but the administration of the country is not the sole or main object that should interest us. It is our business in all these new countries to make smooth the paths for British commerce, British enterprise, the application of British capital, at a time when other paths, other outlets for the commercial energies of our race are being gradually closed by the commercial principles which are gaining more and more adhesion. Everywhere we see the advance of commerce checked by the enormous growth which the doctrines of Protection are obtaining. We see it with our three great commercial rivals, 699 France, Germany, and America. The doctrines of Protection are stronger and stronger, and operate to the exclusion of British commerce wherever their power extends. We see even in our own colonies the same sinister influence at work. Nay, what has recently passed in India may warn us how powerful the current is which is running against the interests of our trade. I do not wish to express an opinion on a matter which is foreign to the present Debate, but what has passed in India does show the intense tendency to Protection which seems to accompany the awakening of every race and the increase of local power in every portion of the world. The moral of that consideration is that it is the duty of the Government to spare no opportunity of opening fresh outlets for the energy of British commerce and enterprise, and I confess that not wholly, but in a great measure, this great undertaking of England with respect to Uganda has been taken, to my mind, and, I believe, to the mind of vast numbers in this country, for the reason that it is a country of enormous fertility, and it has what many countries of fertility have not—a large, increasing population, or, at least, a population that will increase under the favourable conditions of peace, and a population of very fair intelligence. It is a matter of vital importance that British commerce should have free access to that country, free access to the whole of the upper valley of the Nile. But what is going on? Can we afford to sit with our hands before us and say that when the Treasury can be pacified, that when Sir William Harcourt's Imperial instincts receive an additional reinforcement we can undertake this matter, which we are now calmly putting upon the shelf, and can complete the railway, on the commencement of which we counted many, many months ago? We have no such respite given us. We have no such liberty of delay. There are four, if not five, Powers that are steadily advancing towards the upper waters of the Nile. There will be a competition—I will use no stronger word—for the advantages which predominance in that region will confer. I hope that it will be a competition, of a friendly and tranquil character, but no one can foresee what the future will be. At all events it will 700 be a most severe competition, and while you are sitting with your hands before you they are advancing. Many rumours reach us of diplomatic events and diplomatic engagements which have but one meaning, and that is that others covet the predominance in those fertile regions which have so rich a promise of future prosperity; others covet that predominance which you are allowing idly to slip by in deference to the scruples of the Treasury. My Lords, there is another reason why it behoves us of all nations in the world to be specially sedulous to lose no time in opening communications with this fertile country. In this competition that is preparing between various nations we fight with special weapons, weapons which, if we give them a chance, will confer upon us enormous advantages, but which it is necessary that we should be able to handle properly. If this competition is ultimately settled merely by negotiations, by diplomatic weapons, by a protocol of some European capital, I know not what the issue may be. We have so many interests in so many parts of the world, we are so much exposed, that it may be doubtful whether we shall he willing to run anything approaching to risk for the sake of this African possession; but we have another means of making ourselves secure—a means which it may be said belongs to us alone—and that is not the power of our Government or the negotiation which they may carry on, but the energy, the initiative, the force, the individual force which our people carry with them into any new country which they inhabit. I do not think that our Government—I am not speaking of one Party or the other—I do not think that our Government is of much advantage to Englishmen who go into a new country. I think it is rather a disadvantage. Almost everything that is done at home is apt to hinder them, and though we have, as the noble Earl has justly said, officers unparalleled in the world, they come generally with their hands tied to their sides with red tape, and behinds them sits the spirit of the Treasury like Care behind the horseman, which paralyses every effort and Casts a shadow on any enthusiasm they may feel. I do not think Governments aid our people much when they go to the pos- 701 session of a new territory, but our people bring with them such a power of initiative, such an extraordinary courage and resource in the solving of new problems and the facing of new difficulties, that if they are pitted against an equal number—I care not what race; it is or what the part of the world is—and if you keep politics and negotiation off them, in a few years it will be our people that will be masters, it will be our commerce that will prevail, it will be our capital that will rule, though not a sword has been unsheathed, and though not a blow has been struck in their defence. See the splendid work Mr. Rhodes has done in the southern end of Africa. He has obtained little from any Government in this country, but he has laid the foundations of a splendid empire, and even the Government of the Transvaal, hostile as it has been to us, is finding the pressure of English activity all round them so strong that they are slowly giving way, and we have no doubt that by friendly and peaceful, and yet by irresistible force, they will be compelled to fall into line and to join the great, unconscious confederation that is growing up. My Lords, this is a tremendous power, but it requires one condition. You must enable it to get to the country where its work is to be done. You must open the path. It is for you to make the communication. It is for you to enable our people to get there. It is for you to enable capital to be invested and commerce to be extended. I therefore should look upon it as a deep disgrace to the present generation, if, with the opportunities we have, we were by sheer delay and carelessness, by sheer anxiety to avoid or make the financial difficulty of the moment, or by undue respect paid to a philosophy which in this country is now wholly antiquated and outworn—we were to allow the opportunity of a splendid empire for our grandchildren to slip from our grasp, My Lords, it is an opportunity in which time is all important. Do not tell me that our finances will not allow of it. No Government ever made a railway out of its income. It is a matter that must be done with borrowed money, and which may be done now as well as in any condition of our Budget. I believe what was said by the noble Lord opposite is true—that the saving of the mere 702 expenses of porterage would go far to pay the interest on the loan you would have to raise. But that is not really your serious objection. I believe I carry with me the feelings of the greater portion of the Government when I say that this enterprise should not be delayed any longer; and I say, further, that if, in deference to any feeling shown within the Cabinet, or if, in deference to the professional but excessive jealousy of the Treasury, you do not take the measures which a year or two ago you contemplated, and you do not take advantage of this opportunity, which never will return, you will bear a responsibility in the face of posterity, in regard to which I should be sorry to belong to the company of Statesmen on whom it should fall.
THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY AND LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (The Earl of ROSEBERY)I can truly say that with a considerable part of the observation of the noble Marquess I cordially concur. I do not think that as regards our Imperial responsibilities abroad there is any great margin of difference of opinion between the noble Marquess and myself. But I must say that I think that in a matter of this kind the responsibility of judgment must rest with the Administration, and with the Administration alone. I have never denied the expediency, at the proper time, of making a railroad a considerable portion of the way, if not the whole of the way, to Uganda. But, on the other hand, I have always maintained, and I shall always maintain, that it is only the Executive that can properly judge of the right moment for making any proposal in that direction. I will give you one, and only one, incident of what I mean. It is a circumstance to which the noble Marquess did not allude, but it is a circumstance that must have some bearing on the situation—it is that of the administration of the territories through which this railroad is to pass. At present there is no definite, arrangement with regard to that. There are negotiations going on; they have been going on for some time. They have gone on, perhaps, too long. It is not always easy to fix the responsibility of procrastination on one side or the other; but, at any rate, whether these negotiations have gone on 703 too long or not, they are not yet at an end, and I cannot think that Her Majesty's Government would have been justified in introducing into the elements of confusion thus existing in those regions a new scheme of a railroad which would traverse the country. My Lords, the noble Marquess speaks of it as a measure of pressing moment. Well, it may be a matter of some urgency. It may be that it would be better sooner than later, and much sooner than much later. But I would ask him to remember this, that we are in a position perfectly prepared at any moment to commence the railroad. The survey is drawn out and is in existence; and practically no step remains but the making of the contract whenever the Government shall think the moment for making the railroad or portion of the railroad has arrived. Therefore, as regards any competitors in this race for whatever commerce there may be to provide for the central region of Africa, we, at any rate, have a good and sufficient start. I will not follow the noble Marquess into considerations which he introduced; but which he himself admitted had no close bearing on the question—I mean with regard to the influence of Protection on the world. I may only say that the remarks made by a responsible representative of his Party in the other House on the subject also, the other night, made me think that Protection is running a good deal in the heads of the Front Benches of the Opposition. If the railroad to Uganda, and the commerce likely to result from that railroad, would do away with the ramparts set up by Protection in the various States of the world to our commerce, I do not think there is any Member of the Government who would hesitate in making the railroad at once. But that, if the noble Marquess will excuse me saying so, appears to me to be the weak point of his argument. He has told us of the vast wealth of commerce we may expect from Uganda. Heaven knows I am the last person in this House or out of it to underrate the advantages of Uganda. I have preached of them always, and I have been responsible perhaps for the close union of Uganda with the British Empire. But when I am treated to a discourse on the side of Protection all over the world, and am then led to infer 704 almost irresistibly that these will be avoided by making a railroad to Uganda, I cannot help saving that this is missing a premiss without which the noble Marquess is not able adequately to come to his conclusion. The noble Marquess touched on a point very wisely and eloquently, if he will allow me to say so; and what he said upon that point did not tend to the conclusion at which he arrived. He said that what we had done abroad had been done by the unaided energies of our sons; that the children of Great Britain, transplanted abroad, have, by their intelligence, their capacity, and their dash, been able to establish themselves all over the known world, and that all this has been done without any aid from the Imperial Government. But that does not support the conclusion of the noble Marquess, that we ought at once to give assistance in Uganda to energies and capacities which, unaided, have done so well. I do not want to push the argument too far; but I desire to point out that the noble Marquess in taking that line was detracting a little from the conclusion at which he wished to arrive. My Lords, nothing can absolve this or any other Government of their responsibility in regard to this question. But may I ask the noble Marquess to give a little confidence to the judgment of the Administration? The noble Marquess, in the soaring ambition of his contention, leaves this House and enters the secret and the sacred doors of the Cabinet, and portrays with vivid imagination, which leaves nothing to be desired, but which has absolutely no substratum of fact, the Chancellor of the Exchequer defending the doors of the Treasury against the impassioned assault of my noble Friend near me. It may well be that the Treasury which the noble Marquess says is always hostile to anything that concerns the maintenance and development of the Empire—though it has yet been so fortunate as to raise our Navy Estimates to an unprecedented pitch for the very purposes to which, according to the noble Marquess, it is always adverse—it may well be that the Treasury, under the circumstances, would oppose for the moment the making of a railroad, which I admit is important, but which does not appeal powerfully to the imagination of everybody in the country. But that is not the fact. It is not the 705 fact that the Treasury have so refused. It is only the fact that the Government have thought it right to weigh wisely the pros and cons of this transition period of the Protectorate of Uganda before constructing the railway to the Victoria Lake. There is one other point on which I wish to say a word, and it must be a very guarded word. The noble Marquess alluded to agreements, of which he had heard rumours, having been drawn up in reference to African territories within n somewhat limited period of time. It is not for me to say anything positively about these agreements to-night, but I can assure the noble Marquess that they are engaging the anxious and vigilant attention of the Government, not merely in relation to the position of the territories affected in Africa, but also as to how far the provisions of that Convention may actually reflect on the position in Europe. I regard the documents, which I believe have been inaccurately reported, as instruments of the greatest gravity; and I can give the House and the noble Marquess a positive assurance that they are engaging the consistent attention of Her Majesty's Government.
§ LORD STANMOREsaid, the Foreign Secretary had omitted to answer one important question which he had put to him. He had asked whether a Vote would be asked this year for the railway; and, if it would not be asked for— which he understood his noble Friend to convey was the case—what steps would be taken to improve communication in Uganda? To the latter question his noble Friend had returned on answer. If his noble Friend the Lord President of the Council would permit him he should like to demur to one thing that had fallen from him. His noble Friend had said that we had plenty of time for a start in this matter of the railway—
§ LORD STANMOREThen what did you say?
§ LORD STANMOREsaid, that was exactly what he meant to have said as having come from his noble Friend; and he was inclined to doubt it very much. The German Government had already 706 made a railway 20 miles in extent; this year they were going to make another section of it; and it was plain to those who read the newspapers that a greater plan was on foot.
*THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYWith regard to the Vote I have stated that I could make no reply. As to the other point arrangements have been made for steamers and launches on the lake, which we think is a matter of importance.
§ LORD STANMOREBut that does not improve the road.
§ Motion agreed to.
§ House adjourned at Thirty Minutes past Five o'clock, till To-morrow, at a Quarter past Four o'clock.