HL Deb 11 June 1894 vol 25 cc761-4

House in Committee (according to Order).

Clause 1.

THE EARL OF CHESTERFIELD moved, on behalf of the Home Office, in lines 11 and 12, to leave out the words, "Police, slaughter of," as being unnecessary upon shortening the title of the Bill.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 2.

THE EARL OF CHESTERFIELD moved verbal Amendments, which were agreed to.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN moved to substitute for "so severely injured as not to be able to," the words, "that it cannot without cruelty be led away."

THE EARL OF CHESTERFIELD

had no objection to the Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Verbal Amendment.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN moved, in lines 15 and 16, to leave out the words, "at once obtain the opinion of the nearest veterinary surgeon," and insert, "shall at once summon aid"; because in country districts a constable might have to travel a long distance before he could obtain the services of a veterinary surgeon, and the animal would consequently be left to suffer for a considerable period. In London, of course, a veterinary surgeon could always be readily found; but that was not the case in country places.

Amendment agreed to.

Verbal Amendments.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 3.

THE EARL OF CHESTERFIELD moved, to leave out all the words after "constable," in line 20, in order to insert a proviso that the owner and not the ratepayers should pay all expenses connected with slaughtering the beast and removing the carcase. Under the Bill as originally drafted it was proposed that the owner of the horse or animal injured should pay those expenses, whereas the cost of procuring the services of a veterinary surgeon were to be charged on the rates of the parish where the animal was found. The Local Government Board, whom he had consulted, were strongly averse to imposing any fresh burden on ratepayers, and the Amendment was proposed for the purpose of carrying out that object.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

said, if that was the noble Lord's view surely it would be better to allow the owner an option whether he would send for a veterinary surgeon or not. In some country places a veterinary surgeon could not be got under 20 miles, and in the case of a donkey worth £4 coming to grief, the unfortunate owner would have to pay the cost of bringing the veterinary surgeon over. It would only be fair that ho should be asked whether the veterinary surgeon should be sent for.

THE EARL OF CHESTERFIELD

pointed out that an Amendment had been adopted already in Clause 2, which would meet the noble Marquess's suggestion, that the veterinary surgeon must be found "within a reasonable distance." That Amendment was proposed exactly for this purpose.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN

said, the object of the Bill was to enable a police constable in cases of severe accident to call for the opinion of a veterinary surgeon in the absence of the owner. This appeared to be a substantial amendment. Where a donkey (as in the case suggested by the noble Marquess) had merely fallen down in a fit, or something of that kind, if the police constable had obtained a veterinary surgeon and the donkey were to die, the owner would, under any circumstances, be responsible for having the carcase carried off; but supposing, on the other hand, the donkey were to recover and was on its legs again when the veterinary surgeon arrived, the question would arise, who was to pay for his attendance? As the Bill originally stood, any expense of that kind would have fallen upon the parish or person inspiring the police constable. Would it now fall upon the owner? It seemed rather hard that he should be obliged to pay any expenses which the police might see fit to incur, and which could be said to be reasonable. The matter certainly deserved further consideration.

THE EARL OF CHESTERFIELD

said, if the noble Earl would bring it forward at a subsequent stage he would be happy to consider it.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

said, the Bill must go to a Standing Committee.

Amendment (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn.

THE EARL OF CHESTERFIELD moved to insert, in line 21, the word "consequential."

THE MARQUESS OF HUNTLY

thought it was equally doubtful whether the owner should be called upon to pay if the police made a mistake. Clearly the Police Authorities should pay and not the owner.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

thought that in nine cases out of 10 a veterinary surgeon would be an unnecessary luxury, and should only be summoned in extreme cases. As a rule, a police constable would be perfectly competent to judge whether an animal should be slaughtered or not.

THE MARQUESS OF HUNTLY

suggested the case of a gentleman out hunting, and his horse being injured. The police would be sent for; they would send for a veterinary surgeon, and the horse would be ordered to be destroyed. It would be very hard upon the parish to make it pay the cost of the veterinary surgeon. He knew a case where a veterinary surgeon called in simply ordered a horse to be destroyed, and charged 10s. for doing so. The matter seemed to require a good deal of consideration.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN

had no objection to the Police Authorities paying the expense. All he wished to urge was the hardship upon the owner. If without his knowledge a veterinary surgeon was called in, it was rather hard that he should be called upon to pay for it.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

suggested that the matter could be dealt with in Standing Committee.

Amendment (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn.

Verbal Amendments.

THE EARL OF CHESTERFIELD moved to insert, in line 6, after "animal," the words "summarily as a civil debt." The words were essential in order to provide means for recovering expenses, which did not already exist in the Bill.

Amendment agreed to.

LORD MONKSWELL

proposed to insert "in Ireland" after the Grand Jury cess.

THE EARL OF CHESTERFIELD

suggested that that also should remain over for the further stage.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Preamble.

THE EARL OF CHESTERFIELD moved that this be omitted as unnecessary.

Amendment agreed to.

Bill re-committed to the Standing Committee; and to be printed, as amended. (No. 100.)