Lords Sitting of 5 June 1894

LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 4) BILL.

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—{The Lord Monkswell.)
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNasked the noble Lord to state what was in the Bill. A great many Provisional Order Bills were put down on the Paper, but they were not on the Table. Perhaps the noble Lord would have no objection to explain what they contained.
  *LORD MONKSWELLsaid, he had no further information.
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNinquired whether anybody knew what it was the House was asked to pass?
  *LORD MONKSWELLsaid, the Bills were on the Table. By the title this Bill related to the urban sanitary district of Lisburn, and the Order was set out in the Schedule.
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: May I ask why these Bills are not printed? It is not as though we were very economical about printing, and I think we might spare a little for printing such Bills as these.
  LORD MONKSWELLsaid, a copy was always placed on the Table.
  Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 4) BILL. (No. 45.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—{The Lord Hawkesbury.)
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNasked the same question about this Bill. For anything their Lordships knew, they
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  might be passing anything. A great deal of mischief was done in this way. It was frequently found afterwards that difficulties arose from Bills having been passed in the particular form drafted.
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: I am entirely in accord with the noble Lord in this matter. I have been on Committees where things have been quoted against us. As the noble Lord opposite has just said, we have no means of knowing what is being passed if no chance is given us of looking at the Bills.
  *THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (The Earl of MORLEY)said, in answer to the noble Marquess, these Provisional Order Bills were now more innocent than they used to be at one time. Some time ago some extraordinary things might have crept into Provisional Orders; but now the Orders were confined to the purposes for which they were intended, and the Bill simply confirmed the various Orders. The Bills were printed and could always be placed on the Table if desired.
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: I think it is very desirable. The noble Lord knows the old legend which used to be told at Oxford of the ward and the waterman who got leave to marry in a Turnpike Bill.
  Motion agreed; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.

ARBITRATION (SCOTLAND) BILL. (No. 78.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
  *LORD WATSON,in moving the Second Reading, said, that as the law stood at present in Scotland, where two parties agreed to refer a question to arbiters named, the reference was effectual and binding upon them both, and excluded either party from resorting to a Court of Law in order to obtain a settlement of the dispute. On the other hand, should the parties make an agreement binding themselves to refer to arbiters not named in the agreement, or merely designated as the holders of an office or appointment, as in the case of an agree-

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  ment to refer to the Lord Advocate for the time being, that agreement was of no value in law, and either of the parties could withdraw from it and resort to the ordinary tribunals of the country. That was not the ancient law of Scotland; the rule was introduced by judicial decision about a century ago. Since that time members of the same body who introduced it had referred to it in not very complimentary terms, which have been re-echoed by noble and learned Lords in their Lordships' House. Not only so, but what was of more importance in considering whether a change ought to be made in the law, it had become a very serious inconvenience to the mercantile community. Companies and other large concerns frequently entered into contracts having currency during long periods of years, and they found it quite impossible to name a series of arbiters with any certainty of the gentlemen named; being in a position to take up the reference when a dispute emerged, the consequence being that on some occasions it had been necessary to incur the cost of applying to Parliament in order to obtain statutory authority to do that which they could not bind themselves to do by contract. Again, in ordinary business transactions Scotch merchants dealing with foreign or English merchants, where the law was otherwise, found it was not to their interest that they should be constantly setting their hands to agreements which were not binding upon them, and strong expressions of opinion had emanated from many commercial bodies in the country to the effect that an alteration should be made in the law. In those circumstances, he presented this Bill. The second was the leading clause. It declared simply that henceforth agreements of reference in Scotland should not be invalid, although arbiters were not named, or only described by their office. The other clauses of the Bill were simply auxiliary. They gave to the Sheriff or to any Lord Ordinary of the Court of Session the power to name an arbiter where the party who was bound to do so declined to perform his obligation. This explanation would probably be sufficient to induce their Lordships to grant a Second Reading to the Bill. Its details could then be considered in Committee.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—(The Lord Watson.)
  THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord HERSCHELL): My Lords, there are some respects in which the Scotch law differs from the law of this country, and sometimes I think the Scotch law is superior to our own. But the experience which I have had in listening to appeals in this House has led me to the conclusion that this undoubtedly is not one of those instances, but that in the present case it would be an advantage to Scotland to bring its law into conformity with that which prevails here. I am led to that conclusion for two reasons. In the first place, inconvenience is undoubtedly experienced from the present state of the law in Scotland; and in the next, that condition of the law has not been and cannot be rested upon any satisfactory basis. I therefore support the Motion for Second Reading.
  LORD HALSBURY: I only wish to express my entire concurrence in this proposed alteration of the law. Within the last 12 months two cases, at all events, have come before this House in which that condition of the law of Scotland has been brought prominently forward, showing the great inconvenience which has resulted from the state of the law as it now exists.
  Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.

POLICE (SLAUGHTER OF INJURED ANIMALS) BILL.—(No. 74.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNsaid, the object of this Bill was to enable police constables and other officials to order horses and other animals when mortally injured to be slaughtered without waiting for the arrival of the owner. The Bill proposed to give that power under conditions. By Section 2 any constable on receiving information that an animal had been seriously injured might obtain the opinion of the nearest duly registered veterinary surgeon, and upon his giving a certificate that the animal was either mortally or so seriously injured as not to be, probably, fit for use

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  again, the constable might cause the animal to be slaughtered. Section 3 provided for the expense which might be incurred in so slaughtering animals being charged to the owner, but the cost of the veterinary surgeon's certificate would be charged to the rates of the parish where the animals were found.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—(The Earl of Camperdown.)
  THE EARL OF CHESTERFIELDsaid, he was pleased to inform the noble Lord that as far as the Home Office was concerned no objection would be offered to the Second Reading of the Bill. On the contrary, as it gave statutory authority to a practice which had been already initiated by the Home Secretary under the Metropolitan Police Regulation at the commencement of the present year, it met with their hearty support. At the same time, to make the measure more practical and workable, the Home Office considered it would be necessary to introduce Amendments in the Committee stage. When the Bill was under discussion in another place those Amendments never came before the Committee, owing to some misunderstanding between the promoters of the Bill and the Homo Secretary. It would therefore be his duty at a future stage to move the same Amendments in this House.
  Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.

LIMITATION OF ACTIONS BILL [H.L.] (No. 39.)

  THIRD READING.
  Order of the Day for the Third Reading, read.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 3a."—(The Lord Chancellor.)
  VISCOUNT CROSSsaid, he wished to take the opportunity of stating his satisfaction that the Bill was to become law, and of thanking the Lord Chancellor for having taken the wise course of limiting it as it finally stood. He hoped the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack would not forget also that the other part of the Bill was, in the opinion of many people, very essential, and that a much
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  shorter limitation ought to be fixed for bringing actions than the period at present. Evidence was brought before the Commission on the Debtors' Act upon the point, although that was not actually the point before them, and he felt sure that the trading classes would welcome a limitation of the period with regard to contracts.
  THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord HERSCHELL.): I may assure the noble Viscount that I will bear the matter in mind. It is, of course, a difficult question to deal with, because agreements may have been arrived at. But some shorter period seems to be desirable, and that matter will no doubt be considered as to how far we should go when the question comes to be dealt with hereafter. I beg to move the Amendment of which I have given notice. The first part of it is merely drafting; and the latter portion is that which I stated in Standing Committee my intention to move, with regard to the form in which the action should be brought.
  Motion agreed to; Bill read 3a.
  On Question, "That the Bill do pass,"
  Amendment moved, in Clause 1, page 1, to leave out all after ("discovered")in line 12 to the end of the clause, and insert—
  "At the time when it was committed, the period of limitation shall run from the time when the wrong might with reasonable diligence have been discovered in like manner as if the wrong had been then committed: Provided that this shall not extend the time for bringing any action commenced after the passing of this Act for any longer period than would have been applicable if this Act had not passed. This section shall apply to an action founded on contract, where the action is brought in respect of a wrongful act, neglect, or default which might have been made the subject of an action founded on tort."—(The Lord Chancellor.)
  Amendment agreed to.
  Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.

  HIGH SHERIFFS.
  Report from the Select Committee (with the proceedings of the Committee) made, and to be printed. (No. 84.)

  TROUT FISHING (SCOTLAND) BILL [H.L.]—(No. 49.)
  Reported from the Standing Committee with Amendments: The Report thereof to be received on Thursday next;

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  and Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 85.)

  LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 6) BILL.—(No. 70.)
  Read 2a (according to Order), and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.
  LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDER (HOUSING OF WORKING CLASSES) BILL.—(No. 16.)
  Read 3a (according to Order), and passed.
  LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS BILL.—(No. 17.)
  Read 3a (according to Order), and passed.
  LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 2) BILL.—(No. 9.)
  Read 3a (according to Order), and passed.
  LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 3) BILL.—(No. 31.)
  Read 3a (according to Order), and passed.
  COMMISSIONERS OF WORKS BILL. (No. 68.)
  House in Committee (according to Order): Bill reported without Amendment; and re-committed to the Standing Committee.

  INDIAN RAILWAY COMPANIES BILL.
  Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and to be read 2a on Friday next. (The Lord Reay.) (No. 86.)
  House adjourned at ten minutes before Six o'clock, to Thursday next, a quarter past Ten o'clock.