Lords Sitting of 7 August 1894

LONDON COUNTY COUNCIL (TOWER BRIDGE SOUTHERN APPROACH) BILL.

  THIRD READING.
  Bill read 3a, with the Amendments.
  THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (The Earl of MORLEY): My Lords, I have to move a series of Amendments on this Bill, the majority of which are merely with the view of bringing it into better shape. The important Amendment which I have to move is in that portion of what may be called the Betterment Clause, which refers to the compulsory purchase of lands if owners or lessees do not agree with the assessment of the Local Authority. My Lords, I wish to explain to the House that I have no responsibility for this clause whatever, and that my intervention is really to render the clause more intelligible and better in working. As the clause came from the Select Committee there were certain points in it which would have been difficult to work, and which might have been the cause of some obstruction and mischief. My Lords, I have now to move an Amendment which will, I think, simplify that matter; but I do not wish it to be understood that I make myself responsible for the principle or policy of the clause, on which I desire to express no opinion. My Lords, as I do not think that these Amendments will be likely to meet with objection either from the House or from the promoters, I will move them en bloc. They are all on Clause 36 of the Bill.
  (Amendments moved in Clause 36, moved accordingly.)
  THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord TWEEDMOUTH): My Lords, this new clause which has come down from the Committee upstairs is at once very long and very important, comprising 20 sections and 10 pages. It is a very important one also, because by agreeing to it your Lordships will give your assent to that much-vexed question of betterment. But, my Lords, this clause as it
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  came down from the Committee seems to me to be by no means on all-fours with the recommendations of your Lordships' Committee. Then the noble Lord the Chairman has proposed various Amendments to it. Those Amendments also are of considerable importance, and I must say they have a very mitigating effect on what I believe to be some of the worst errors of the clause as it came before the Committee. I think, my Lords, I should have been justified in asking that the consideration of this clause with these Amendments should have been postponed to some other day when there would be a better attendance of your Lordships to consider them, and when there would have been a longer period for the persons taking an interest in this question to consider the Amendments proposed by the noble Lord the Chairman, because, after all, we only had these Amendments before us for the first time this morning. But, my Lords, I do not desire to in any way act the part of a captious critic, nor do I desire, considering the period of the Session, to put any difficulties in the way of the progress of this Bill. I am anxious only to say that in my humble judgment the conditions imposed in this clause upon the carrying into practice the principle of betterment which your Lordships hereby assent to are so onerous that they will practically render carrying into effect your Lordships' decision impossible. I do not believe that any Local Authority with these conditions imposed upon it at all likely to take up the question of betterment, and to endeavour to enforce it. But, my Lords, that only applies to an opinion of my own, and it is not for me, therefore, to say more to your Lordships upon that question. That is a matter for the Local Authorities who have to carry the principles of betterment into practice. What I want to do to-day is merely to enter a caveat against it being supposed that I, and those who think with me in assenting to this Third Reading with these Amendments, agree to the conditions imposed by this clause. I also wish on behalf of the Local Authorities, and on behalf of the London County Council, to say that they reserve to themselves the fullest power of dealing with this question and of discussing it again when it comes up in another place, and that it must not be

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  supposed that because the Third Reading is assented to here to-day that they are thereby debarred from further opposing it when it gets back to the other House. I do not know what course they have determined upon, but they hold that they will be wanting in no courtesy to this House, nor in regard to following the usual forms of procedure in raising this question. With that caveat, my Lords, I beg to give my assent to the Third Reading of this Bill.
  THE EARL OF MORLEY: My Lords, I think it would have been well if the noble Lord had pointed out in what respect the Bill goes beyond the recommendations of the Committee to which your Lordships assented not long ago, and of which the noble Lord was a Member. Having gone carefully through the Bill, both before and since the Committee sat, I must say that it seems to me it does carry out entirely the recommendations of the Committee, of which, as I have said, the noble Lord himself was a Member.
  LORD TWEEDMOUTH: I most particularly referred to the clause as it came from the Committee, and I said that I thought the Amendments proposed by the noble Lord the Chairman had a very mitigating effect upon and greatly improved the clause. It is only on small points now, perhaps, that the clause cannot be brought within the recommendations of the Committee; but I meant to make myself perfectly clear that the clause as it came from the Select Committee did fail, in my opinion, to comply with the conclusions of the Report of the Committee.
  THE DUKE OF RUTLAND: While the noble Lord is explaining his views to the House, perhaps he would not object to explain what he meant by saying that he was speaking on behalf of the Local Authorities and of the London County Council. I can understand his speaking on behalf of the London County Council, but will he have the goodness to tell us what are the other Local Authorities of which he was speaking?
  LORD TWEEDMOUTH: There are no other Local Authorities concerned in this particular Bill. I was only entering a caveat in reference to other Local Authorities with regard to other Bills containing betterment clauses similar to this Bill.
  THE DUKE OF RUTLAND: Then in that case it will be competent to the Local Authorities to say they object.
  LORD TWEEDMOUTH: I am not now speaking as the mouthpiece of any Local Authority. I am merely entering a caveat on my own account to guard against the idea being entertained on the part of noble Lords who might suppose we ought to consider ourselves bound by the conditions which are imposed by this clause.
  Amendments agreed to.
  Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.

THAMES CONSERVANCY BILL.

  THIRD READING.
  Bill read 3a.
  THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (The Earl of MORLEY)moved several Amendments which he stated were of a purely formal character.
  Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.

  PRIVATE BILLS.
  THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES moved that the Standing Orders be amended as follows:—
  NOTE.—The words between [] are to be omitted, and the words printed in Italics are to be inserted.
  (Notices to state objects of application and intention to seek for powers to purchase lands, or to amalgamate, &c, or to dissolve company, or to levy or alter tolls, or impose improvement charge.)
  3. In all cases where application is intended to be made for leave to bring in a Local Bill notice shall be given stating the objects of such intended application; and if it be intended to apply for powers for the compulsory purchase of land or houses, or for extending the time granted by any former Act for that purpose, or to amalgamate with any other company, or to sell or lease the undertaking, or to purchase or take on lease the undertaking of any other company, or to enter into working agreements or traffic arrangements, or to dissolve any company, or to amend or repeal any former Act or Acts, or to levy any tolls, rates, or duties, or to alter any existing tolls, rates, or duties, or to confer, vary, or extinguish any exemption from payment of tolls, rates, or duties, or to confer, vary, or extinguish any other rights or privileges, or to impose on any lands or houses or to render any lands or houses liable to the imposition of any special charge in respect of any improvement, the notice shall specify such intention; and shall also specify the company,

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  person or persons, with, to, from, or by whom it is intended to be proposed that such amalgamation, sale, purchase, lease, working agreements, or traffic arrangements shall be made: and the whole of the notice relating to the same Bill shall, except as provided by Order 9, be included in the same advertisement, which shall be headed by a short title, descriptive of the undertaking or Bill, and shall be subscribed with the name and address of the person, company, corporation, or firm responsible for the publication of the notice.
  New Standing Order—
  (Notice to owners, &c. in case of improvement charge.)
  12a. On or before the fifteenth day of December immediately preceding the application, for a Sill by which, any special charge is imposed upon any lands or houses or any lands or houses are rendered, liable to have a special charge imposed upon them, in connection with any improvement, notice in writing shall be given to the owners or reputed owners, lessees or reputed, lessees, and occupiers of all such lands and houses of such proposed, special charge or liability.
  (Plan, book of reference, and section to be deposited with clerk of the peace, &c.)
  24. In cases of Bills of the Second Class, a plan and also a duplicate thereof, together with a book of reference thereto, and a section and also a duplicate thereof, as hereinafter described, and in eases of Bills of the First Class, by which any lands or houses are intended to be taken, and in the case of all Hills by which any special charge is imposed upon any lands or houses, or any lands or houses are rendered, liable to hare a, special charge imposed upon them in connection with any improvement, a. plan and duplicate thereof, together with a book of reference thereto, shall be deposited for public inspection at the office of the clerk of the peace for every county, riding or division in England or Ireland, or in the office of the principal sheriff clerk of every county in Scotland, and where any county in Scotland is divided into districts or divisions, then also in the office of the principal sheriff clerk in or for each district or division in or through which the work is proposed to be made, maintained, varied, extended, or enlarged, or in which such lands or houses are situate, on or before the thirtieth day of November immediately preceding the application for the Bill.
  (Deposit of Bills at Treasury and other public Departments.)
  33. On or before the twenty-first day of December a printed copy of every Local Bill shall be deposited at the Office of Her Majesty's Treasury and at the General Post Office;
  A printed copy of every Local Bill relating to any matter in England or Wales, within the jurisdiction of the Local Government Board, or to which Standing Order No. 38 applies, at the Office of that Board.
  (Contents of book of reference.)
  46. The book of reference shall contain the names of the owners or reputed owners, lessees or reputed lessees, and occupiers of all lands
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  and houses in the line of the proposed work, or within the limits of deviation as defined upon the plan, or upon which any special, charge is imposed, or which are rendered liable to have a special charge imposed, upon them in connection, with any improvement, and shall describe such lands and houses respectively.
  (Copy of H.C. Bill for conferring powers, &c, on Municipal Corporation, Local Board, or Local Authority, to be deposited at office of Local Government Board not later than two days after First Reading.)
  60 a. In the case of Bills brought from the House of Commons:—
  A copy of every Bill whereby application is made by or on behalf of any Municipal Corporation, Local Board, Improvement Commissioners, or other Local Authority in England or Wales, for power in respect of any matter within the jurisdiction of the Local Government Board, and of every Bill whereby any powers, rights, duties, capacities, liabilities, or obligations are sought to be conferred or imposed on any Local Authority in England or Wales in respect of any matter within the jurisdiction of the Local Government Board, and of every Bill relating to public roads, highways, or bridges, and of every Bill to which Standing Order No. 38 applies, shall be deposited at the office of the Local Government Board not later than two days after the Bill is read a first time.
  (Meeting of Members of limited company, society, &c. in the case of Bill empowering or requiring the company, society, &c. to do any act not authorised under existing powers.)
  63. In the case of every Bill, whether originating in this House, or in the House of Commons, [empowering or requiring.]
  (1) promoted by any company, society, association, or co-partnership formed or registered under the Companies Act, 1862, or constituted by Act of Parliament, Royal charter, letters patent, deed of settlement, contract of co-partnery, cost book regulations, or other instruments, and under the management of a committee or directors or trustees (and not being a company to which the preceding order applies); or
  (2) empowering or requiring any such company, society, association, or co-partnership, not being the promoters of the Bill, to do any act not authorised by the memorandum and articles of association or other instrument or instruments constituting or regulating such company, society, association, or co-partnership, or authorising or enacting the abandonment of the undertaking, or any part of the undertaking of any such company, society, association, or co-partnership, or the dissolution thereof, proof shall be given before the Examiner before the Second Reading of the Bill in this House, that the following requirements have been complied with, and the Examiner shall report accordingly:
  New Standing Order—
  (Provisional Order Confirmation Bills may be referred to the Chairman of Committees.)
  102 a. Any Provisional Order Confirmation Bill may, before being committed to a Committee

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  of the Whole Souse, he referred to the Chairman of Committees, with respect to all or any of the Orders scheduled thereto, to be dealt with in the same manner as unopposed Local Bill.
  (Railway, &c. rates and charges.)
  123 a. In the case of every Bill for incorporating a railway, Canal, or tramroad company, or for giving any powers to an existing railway, canal, or tramroad company to which no Hates and Charges Order Confirmation Act expressly applies, the Committee on the Bill shall fix the rates and charges for merchandise traffic (including small parcels of a perishable nature conveyed by passenger train, exceeding 56 lbs. in weight) by reference to the Rates and Charges Order Confirmation Act of some other company which, in the opinion of the Committee, will properly and conveniently apply; and the Committee shall, in the case of an existing company, provide that the rates and charges for merchandise traffic and such small parcels as aforesaid so fixed shall be in substitution for the rates and charges for similar traffic authorised to lie taken by the company under their existing Acts.
  (No Naturalisation Bill to be read a second time without a certificate being produced touching the petitioner's conduct.)
  179. No Bill for naturalising any person [born in any foreign territory] shall be read a second time until the petitioner shall produce a certificate from one of Her Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State respecting his conduct, and shall take the oath of allegiance at the Bar of the House.
  In the schedule of foes on page 75 leave out the last paragraph, viz.:
  "The Second Reading fee on Bills promoted by Local Authorities is limited to £81, unless the Bill authorises the receipt of any rate, charge, fare, or similar revenue in respect of the exercise of powers beyond the district of the Local Authority."
  And on page 76, after—
  "All other Local Bills.… 8100" insert—
  The Second Reading fees on Bills promoted by Local] Authorities are limited to £27, £54, and £81, as the case may be, except in the case of Bills authorising the receipt of any rate, charge, fare, or similar revenue in respect of the exercise of powers beyond the districts of the Local Authorities.
  He said, that the first of the Amendments referred to the embodiment of the betterment principle, and he believed accurately followed the recommendations of the Committee. If any noble Lord had questions to ask, he would be happy to answer them.
  Amendments agreed to.

LOCOMOTIVE THRESHING ENGINES BILL.—(No. 158.)
Returned from the Commons with the Amendments agreed to.
CANAL TOLLS AND CHARGES PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 1) (CANALS OF THE GREAT NORTHERN AND CERTAIN OTHER RAILWAY COMPANIES) BILL.—(No. 184.)
House in Committee (according to Order): Bill reported without Amendment: Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be read 3a on Monday next.
CANAL RATES, TOLLS, AND CHARGES PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 2.) (BRIDGWATER, &c, CANALS) BILL.—(No. 185.)
House in Committee (according to Order): Bill reported without Amendment: Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be read 3a on Monday next.
CANAL TOLLS AND CHARGES PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 3) (ABERDARE, &c. CANALS) BILL—(No. 186.)
House in Committee (according to Order): Bill reported without Amendment: Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be read 3a on Monday next.
CANAL TOLLS AND CHARGES PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 5) (REGENT'S CANAL) BILL.—(No. 187.)
House in Committee (according to Order): Bill reported without Amendment; Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be read 3a on Monday next.
CANAL TOLLS AND CHARGES PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 7) (RIVER ANCHOLME, &c.) BILL.—(No. 188.)
House in Committee (according to Order): Bill reported without Amendment: Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be read 3a on Monday next.
CANAL TOLLS AND CHARGES PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 8) (RIVER CAM, &c.) BILL.—(No. 189.)
House in Committee (according to Order),: Bill reported without Amendment: Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be read 3a on Monday next.

CANAL TOLLS AND CHARGES PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 10) (CANALS OF THE CALEDONIAN AND NORTH BRITISH RAILWAY COMPANIES) BILL.—(No. 190.)
House in Committee (according to Order): Bill] reported without Amend-

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ment: Amendments made: Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be read 3a on Manday next.

CANAL HATES, TOLLS, AND CHARGES PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 12) (GRAND CANAL, &c.) BILL.—(No. 191.)
House in Committee (according to Order): Bill reported without Amendment: Amendments made: Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be read 3a on Monday next.

HERITABLE SECURITIES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read la; and to be printed. (No. 202.)
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.
The Lord Steward (M. Breadalbane)—Chosen Speaker in the absence of the Lord Chancellor and the Lords Commissioners.

TENANTS ARBITRATION (IRELAND) BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and to be read 2a on Monday next: (The Earl Spencer). (No. 203.)
House adjourned at a quarter past Twelve o'clock A.M., to Monday next, a quarter past Four o'clock.