§ * LORD COLCHESTERasked the Lord President of the Council whether any representation has been made by the Education Department to the Holborn Board of Works respecting the drainage and ventilation of the St. Giles-in-the-Fields National School; whether it was usual to make such representations to other Public Bodies without previous reference to the managers of the school? He said, the action of the Department upon the information he possessed seemed so singular that he hoped some explanation of it could be given by the Lord President. In face of the tendency shown by the Department to deal harshly with voluntary schools, he thought it right to bring before the House this instance in which their action appeared to be of a suspicious character. This school was inspected last March, when the Inspector could only find some slight deficiency in the girls' and infants' school. In May a 865 notice was received from the Holborn Board of Works that the drainage and ventilation required attention, and it appeared, from the statement of their clerk to the Treasurer of the School, they made the requisition at the the request of the Department. A letter had been written, but it was stated to be contrary to custom to give particulars where information had been given of the existence of a nuisance. It seemed extraordinary that, after an Inspector had passed the school as being satisfactory in its internal arrangements in all save one or two unimportant particulars, the managers were suddenly called upon, not by the Education Department directly, but through the Holborn Board of Works, to make extensive alterations in the school premises.
THE EARL OF KIMBBRLEYMy Lords, I think I can give a perfectly satisfactory answer to the noble Lord's question. I must, however, preface it by saying I do not understand such extraordinary jealousy being shown of our efforts to put an end to sanitary defects. If there had been any irregularity—though I cannot admit that any irregularity has taken place—one would have expected that strong sympathy would have been felt with the efforts of the Education Department to put an end to sanitary defects. It seems to me to be to the interest of everyone that the sanitation in all our schools should be perfect; and I strongly deprecate the constant attacks which are made upon the Education Department as to the manner in which they discharge their paramount duty with regard to sanitation. In answer to the question, I will give a short history of what actually happened. It appears that our Inspector called attention to the cloaks and hats being in the schoolroom. That, of course, is contrary to regulation, and the school managers were communicated with. While that was going on, the Education Department was informed that the Holborn Local Authority had inspected the school, and had made a Report; and the Education Department asked whether they might see it. But no steps were taken by the Department, as far as I know, to ask the Holborn Board of Works to make a Report on the subject. I quite agree with the noble Lord that the proper and regular course 866 should be observed, and that, if we have reason to suppose defects exist, our proper course would be to communicate with the school managers in the ordinary way, and take the steps we are empowered to take; but all we did was to ask the Holborn Board of Works what they had been doing.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, I wish to say a word with regard to the opening remarks of the noble Earl. I do not think we have contrived, on the last two or three occasions, to convey to him the real burden of our complaint. The complaint which is made against the Education Department is not that they exercise their powers in order to raise the general efficiency of the sanitary arrangements of voluntary schools, but that they come down suddenly and make demands which it is physically impossible to execute within the time allowed, at the same time threatening a School Board if that is not done. A great number of complaints to this effect have reached me, and although I have not had an opportunity of investigating them, it is evident that there is a very general impression that the powers of the Education Act, which ought to be used equitably as between Board schools and voluntary schools are used for the purpose of exterminating voluntary schools, and that they are used by Mr. Acland for the purpose of gratifying his own antipathy to denominational education. It may be that that impression is unjust. If that is not the case, the Education Department has been very awkward in its dealings; but if the impression is just, it deserves to be characterised by a very much stronger word. As the noble Earl appears to be ignorant of the educational turmoil in the circumstances concerned, I venture to inform him of it and to give him my explanation.
THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYI am not in the least ignorant of the fact. Indeed, I should have to be living far distant from the Education Department not to be well aware of it. I know there is an impression to the effect stated by the noble Marquess; but, on behalf of the Department, I entirely repudiate any such intention. I will reply to the noble Marquess by telling him what our impression is. Our impression is that this agitation does not arise from any particular anxiety for education, or from any 867 bonâ fide objection to our proceedings, but simply from a desire to save voluntary schools in all cases, at the expense of real education and the provision of proper schools. I fully agree with the noble Marquess that it is the duty of the Department to act equitably in this matter, and that it would be a breach of their duty to make use of their powers for the purpose of injuring the voluntary schools. They ought to use those powers in such a way as to hold the balance equally and fairly as between voluntary and Board schools, and not to seek by a side wind to injure them, but should give them every opportunity to make any changes which are required for the purposes of education, and to meet the demands of the Department upon them.