HL Deb 31 July 1893 vol 15 cc862-4
* THE EARL OF MEATH

called the attention of Her Majesty's Government to the statement made by Captain Bourke, R.N., on 17th July, at the Court Martial on the survivors of Her Majesty's battleship Victoria, when in answer to the question Can you account for the great number of men drowned?" he replied, "I think that unfortunately among the stokers and marines there was a very large proportion who could not swim"; and to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty whether be will give instructions that the stokers and marines, as well as the sailors of Her Majesty's Navy, shall in future be taught to swim? He said the nation was now mourning the loss of several hundred men engulphed in the waters of the Mediterranean through the unfortunate accident to Her Majesty's ship Victoria. It appeared extraordinary, considering the perfect discipline which reigned on board at the time, and the comparative calm of the sea, that so many lives should have been lost; but some light bad been thrown upon the cause of the great sacrifice of life by the evidence given at the Court Martial. A statement that a large proportion of the stokers and marines were unable to swim was startling. It might be supposed that the Admiralty would take care that the men sent on board Her Majesty's ships should learn to swim. Putting aside altogether humanitarian considerations, and having regard simply to the dangers to which those who went to sea were exposed, and the cost which was entailed upon the nation in the training, clothing, and feeding of the seamen and marines, it was most unwise on the part of the Government not to insist that every man who went to sea in Her Majesty's ships should learn to swim. Some day he hoped that swimming would be taught in all Board schools; but, in the meantime, it was the duty of the Go-ment to see that every man in the Army and the Navy knew how to swim. He hoped the First Lord of the Admiralty would be able to state that in future the stokers and marines on board Her Majesty's ships would be taught to swim.

THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (EARL SPENCER)

My Lords, I am glad to say that in some respects the condition of the Navy with regard to swimming has enormously improved. In 1869 considerable inquiries were made as to the number of officers and men in the Navy who could swim, and from Returns made by Sir Geoffrey Hornby respecting six ships with 3,063 men it appeared that the proportion of officers and men who could not swim was as follows: Officers, 11.5 per cent.; seamen, 20.8 per cent.; boys, 11.2 per cent.; and marines, 59.3 per cent. A great improvement has since taken place, and with some small exceptions every seaman and officer is able to swim. At the present time all who enter the Navy young are compulsorily obliged to learn to swim. Marines, however, do not enter the Service at so early an age as the seamen, and are not so good swimmers; but the Admiralty are now increasing the facilities for their learning to swim. With regard to the first-class stokers and artificers, the matter is more difficult. They enter the Service at a later age, and it is impossible to make it a condition that they should before they are entered learn to swim. The second-class stokers are younger, and during the last few years a system has been adopted under which they go through a certain amount of training. The Admiralty hope to increase the facilities given to these men, and they may be able later on to make it a condition of their service that they should be able to swim. With regard to the loss of the Victoria, I may say that from our Papers the Admiralty find that a considerably larger proportion of the marines on board that ship could swim than in the rest of the Service. I do not think the noble Earl has taken into consideration the incidents connected with the unfortunate loss of the ship which account for the great loss of life. The stokers, of course, were below, gallantly and most splendidly doing their duty, and I am afraid that whether they could swim or not a large proportion of them must have been lost. With regard to the seamen and marines, they jumped into the water in such enormous crowds that, I am told by those who understand such things, even the best of swimmers were probably prevented from using their arms and legs. They were so crowded that they could not swim, and many who were unable to swim caught hold of them. That, I think, accounts to some extent for the terrible loss of life which occurred. I need not assure the House that this matter is one which the Admiralty consider of very great importance. I am examining carefully into the whole subject, and the Board are going, if possible, to give greater facilities in various ports for men who joined the Service at a late age to learn to swim. Great facilities are already provided at various ports and stations, where climate and other conditions are suitable; but in some places it is impossible to swim on account of the presence of sharks. The Board will do everything they can not only to maintain the Regulations which now require swimming oil the part of a great number of those who go to sea, but will make the Rules compulsory where they can in all other cases, and give greater facilities for men to learn swimming.