COMMITTEE. (Hansard, 13 July 1893)

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord HERSCHELL)
My Lords, since this measure was before the House my attention has been called to the fact that, having regard to the decision which has been pronounced in a case arising upon the Act which it is pro- 1440 posed to amend, as the law now stands expounded, this Bill would affect the Revenues of the Crown; and, therefore, it is not a Bill which can be introduced in the first instance in this House. I own that I do not see an answer to that objection; because if the decision is accepted as correct, which must be done for the purpose of dealing with this Bill, the Bill does propose to-prevent the collection of certain Revenues which have been held by a Court of Law to belong to the Crown. Therefore, on this ground, and not because I am unfavourable to the Bill, I must express my opinion that the objection is a good one.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
I only ask for information; but my impression is that the rule with regard to the House of Commons dealing with money matters applies to money raised by taxes, in any form; but that with regard to other moneys belonging to the Crown certainly that rule does not apply, and I was not aware it had been so applied.

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR
I think so. Certainly the amounts dealt with under this Act would not be large; but if any part of the Public Revenue is destroyed, it would be necessary to replace it, and that could only be done by taxation. That is the view which I believe is taken by the House of Commons and the Treasury.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
I should be sorry to allow to pass without observation this doctrine unless I was quite certain that the noble and learned Lord had satisfied himself it was really following the law; because, obviously, the reason of the privilege would not be satisfied by the consideration that this was a measure the indirect result of which would be to cause taxation. That might be said of almost any measure that comes before the House. These hereditary Revenues of the Crown in Ireland were entirely at the disposal of the Crown, and would not, until a recent period, affect taxation one way or the other. If they do affect taxation it must be owing to a bargain between the Crown and the public. It appears to me, at first sight, to be straining the privilege somewhat far to say that any effect which may result to the Revenue in consequence of such a bargain disables us from 1441 dealing with anything which comes within the provisions of that Act. If it has grown into a practice, I have nothing to say; but I should be sorry if this were the first instance in which it has been allowed.

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR
With regard to what the noble Marquess has said, I find that was the view taken in the other House; but, at the same time, I have not looked into the matter with any nicety; and as the noble Marquess has intimated a doubt upon the subject, I should like, before committing myself absolutely upon the matter, to look into it more definitely than I have at present. If the Motion is postponed now I will undertake to look into the matter.