§ House in Committee (according to Order).
§ Clause 1.
* THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNproposed, in pursuance of an agreement with Lord Acton, representing the Irish Office, an Amendment carrying out its views.
§
Amendment moved,
In line 8, to leave out from ("ground") to ("and") in line 12, and insert ("that the relation of landlord and tenant does not subsist between the parties thereto.")—(The Earl of Camperdown.)
§ LORD ACTONsaid, the Irish Office had no objection in substance to the noble Earl's Amendments, and the Government would accept his Bill with a further Amendment, which was really a matter of drafting, to insert at the end of line 11, "that the relation of landlord and tenant does not subsist between the grantor or grantee."
§ A subsequent Amendment was consequential.
§ Moved accordingly.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, before we pass this, I merely wish to enter my protest with respect to this Bill. As the Irish landlords or owners do not seem to be troubled about it, I, of course, have nothing further to say; but I shall most energetically resist any proposal for extending a principle of this sort to this country. The principle is that anybody's fee-farm rent, though it is in the nature of a tenure which is entirely removed from any idea of connection between landlord and tenant, should be capable of appraisement and revision, and of being turned into money by a Public Department. That, my Lords, is a very large step, going beyond anything that has ever been done in this country; and I hope that our assent to it in this House, in the absence of objection from our Irish Members, will not be taken as a precedent—I know how quick my noble Friend the Lord President is at 1171 making precedents — for any future legislation.
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (The Earl of KIMBERLEY)I am afraid that nothing can prevent what has actually been done forming a precedent — whether it be followed or not. Of course, it is open to anybody to say the precedent ought not to be followed. That is another thing. This is really a Bill rather in the nature of a measure for the compulsory redemption of copyholds which we have been talking about elsewhere.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYNo; redemption of copyholds is put under arbitration; but this procedure is to be under Acts in Ireland, of which, I am afraid, their best friends do not say otherwise than that they preclude all idea, of arbitration.
* THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNsaid, he had stated that this Bill did not, in itself, contain any principle, but was merely in reference to the construction of an existing Act of Parliament. Under the previous Act, the principles contained in the original Act were extended to fee-farm rents. But, as a question of construction, it was discovered that, though the provisions applied to fee-farm rents executed after 1860, they did not apply to those executed prior to 1860. This Bill was merely introduced for the purpose of applying to these prior fee-farm rents.
§ Amendments agreed to.
§ Clause, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clause 2 agreed to.
* THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNproposed that the Standing Committee be negatived, as, in consequence of the approaching Adjournment, it would be impossible to pass the Bill.
§ Moved, "That the Standing Committee be negatived."—(The Earl of Camperdown.)
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI must ask the House to consider before they consent to that, because it is really destroying the principle of Standing Committee. This Bill has every element of a measure which should go to a Standing Committee. It has in it provisions in the nature of those expansive 1172 germs which seem now to form part of our legislation. It is an example of that expansion of germs, where a principle begins to be carried out in a very small enactment—small as a grain of mustard seed; but, as we know, a seed of that kind can grow and develop into a large tree, and hereafter the fowls and vultures of spoliation will nestle in its branches. I think there will be ample time for the consideration of the Bill by the Standing Committee, as I do not think there is a possibility of an early Prorogation. My impression is that we shall meet again at the end of this month, and may possibly be here towards the end of the month after.
* THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNsaid, he would withdraw his Motion in accordance with the suggestion of the noble Marquess.
§ Motion (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn.
§ Bill re-committed to the Standing Committee; and to be printed as amended. (No. 240.)