§ LORD COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, I desire to call your Lordships' attention to the question that stands on the Notice Paper in my name. In consequence of a sad accident which occurred a few months ago a Committee was appointed to inquire and report on the system under which artillery practice seawards, whether from ships or from ports, is to be carried out. The Committee was composed of three Members of the House of Commons, one of them being Chairman, two captains of the Royal Navy, and two colonels of the Royal Artillery. The greater portion of the evidence has been given in London, but a local inquiry took place at Plymouth, which is the place where the accident, to which I referred, occurred. The next local inquiry is fixed for Friday next to take place at the west side of the Isle of Wight, and it is the subject of that coming inquiry to which I beg to call your Lordships' attention; for, should this scheme be carried out, as indicated in my question, it will simply result in converting into a mare clausum for certain hours on certain days in each week the Needles Channel, the most important entrance for all vessels from the westward to the Isle of Wight, and those that are going from the Isle of Wight into the Channel. The evidence of the Artillery officer, who for his local experience was called before the Committee, gives no idea as to the 1091 class and amount and importance of the shipping that passes through the Needles Channel. He stated that few ocean steamers go through the Channel, and none larger than those of the German Lloyds. The witness was I think very much in error. There are numerous other large steamers besides those of the German Lloyds; there are the Hamburg-American, much larger vessels than the German Lloyds; there are the Donald Currie and the Union Cape Mail steamers; there are the West Indian steamers; there are the Brazil steamers. Besides these, there are troopers, and not infrequently men-of-war, passing through the Needles, and the steamers of the London and South Western Railway Company, three or four of which daily cross between Southampton, the Channel Islands, and the French ports; there are some Scotch and Irish traders, and numerous excursion boats during the summer season. But the witness completely leaves out of account the large number of coasting sailing vessels and craft of all description which frequent the Solent; and that is the class which will suffer most if the proposed scheme be carried out. In bad weather frequently the sailing vessels run to the Needles for shelter, and after bad weather one may see twenty or thirty coasting sailing vessels getting under way to go to sea in the Needles Channel. Are these vessels to be stopped or interfered with? I strongly suspect that their captains will not lose the chance of a fair wind and tide in order to obey the instructions of an Artillery officer who wants to fire at his targets, but will pay no heed whatever to such restrictions. I readily admit the very great importance and the very great difficulty in finding stations for the range of these great guns that we have now amongst us; but I am confident the proposed scheme will not avail; it will be impossible to enforce a hard and fast time as to vessels passing through the Needles Channel, unless such enforcement is assisted by a number of tug steamers, aided by despatch or torpedo boats; and I question whether the Admiralty is very anxious to supply these. I hope my noble Friend who is going to answer me will be able to say whether such a prohibition 1092 against vessels making use of a much frequented and most important waterway can be legally maintained, and why the summer months have been selected when the number of vessels making use of the Solent and the Needles Channel is enormously in excess of the number at any other period of the year. There are also two other classes of the community to be considered: the poor fishermen, and those who are possibly passing their holidays, at the largely increasing and popular seaside resorts in the neighbourhood of the Needles; for during the restricted hours fishing boats and pleasure boats will not be permitted to leave the shore. I trust that some consideration may be given to these subjects which I have ventured to urge, and that some more feasible scheme may be adopted. The principal difficulty is with the guns in Hurst Port, which point towards the Needles Channel; for those of the island shore, from their elevated position, can easily be fired across the Channel into Christchurch Bay, which is very little used by shipping. I beg to ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is the case that evidence has been given by the military authorities before the Target Practice (Seawards) Committee in favour of facilities being given for firing the guns in the forts at the Needles entrance to the Isle of Wight during the summer months; and that the Needles passage, and what is called the North Channel, between Hurst Castle and the Shingles Shoal, should be closed for about two hours for several days in each week for sailing, vessels of all descriptions, including pleasure and fishing boats, thereby interrupting the coasting trade which is carried on between ports in the English Channel and elsewhere, and those in the Solent?
*LORD BALFOURMy Lords, as this Committee has been appointed mainly at the instance of the Board of Trade, it falls to me to reply to the question of the noble Lord. As it stands on the Paper, it asks whether certain evidence has been given to the Committee, and the answer to that must be in the affirmative; a military officer did give evidence somewhat in the direction indicated by the question of the noble Lord. But 1093 of course the House and the noble Lord will understand that the Department which I represent is in no way responsible for the evidence which is tendered at the inquiry. My Lords, it seems to me that it would be extremely inconvenient and improper if, under the circumstances of the case as they now stand, I were to express any opinion upon the merits of the questions concerned. The noble Lord has told the House himself that the inquiry is still proceeding, and that there is to be a local inquiry close by the spot affected by the evidence to which he has referred. I venture to think that the speech which the noble Lord has made would afford a valuable contribution to the evidence which might be tendered to the Committee, and that, either by himself or by some one equally conversant with the locality, the noble Lord should put before the Committee the considerations which he has put before the House. I think the House will agree with me that while the inquiry is proceeding it would not be right for a Departmental officer to express any opinion upon evidence which is submitted to the Committee; we should wait surely for the Report of the Committee, and when the Committee has reported it will, I venture to think, be time enough for the Department to consider and make up its mind upon such questions as may be contained in the Report. My Lords, I think I shall be following the usual practice if I express a hope that I shall not be asked at this stage to give any opinion as to the merits of the questions concerned.