§ *LORD WATSONMy Lords, I venture to ask your Lordships to present an humble Address praying Her Majesty to withhold her assent to the words "or in mathematics" occurring in Clause IV. (2) of the Ordinance No. XI. framed by the Commissioners under the Universities (Scotland) Act, 1889. A single sentence will suffice to explain why I have ventured to take this step. The clause in question requires that a student shall pass in a higher standard so far as regards mathematics. For a pass degree mathematics is an alternative subject with natural philosophy, but the same conditions do not apply to a class in natural philosophy. Attendance at a mathematical class does not count as part of the degree curriculum, unless the higher standard has been previously passed. Attendance at a class of natural philosophy counts, without any such requirement. It has appeared to me, and it is also the opinion of men much more capable than I am of judging of these matters, that the tendency of the regulation as it stands will be to discourage the teaching of mathematics in the Scotch Universities in the case of students proceeding to a pass degree—a result no Scotchman can contemplate with satisfaction. I wish to explain that according to my view, although these words are struck out of the regulation that will not make the Code perfect; but my object in asking your Lordships to petition Her Majesty humbly to withdraw her assent from these words is in order that the way in which these two subjects ought to be dealt with—mathematics and natural philosophy—may be re-considered by the Commissioners and made the subject of a supplementary Ordinance. I do not anticipate that the noble Marquess who takes charge of Scotch affairs in 338 this House will have any objection to the Motion, and I am assured that the Commissioners themselves agree to the propriety of the course which I ask your Lordships to adopt.
Moved, "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty praying Her Majesty to withhold her assent to the words 'or in mathematics' occurring in Clause IV. (2) of the Ordinance No. XI. framed by the Commissioners under the Universities (Scotland) Act, 1889."—(The Lord Watson.)
§ *LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, I am sorry that Lord Kelvin, the highest authority in this country on the subjects involved in the Motion of the noble and learned Lord, has been summoned to Scotland by the death of a brother who was, till within the last few months, a no less distinguished professor in Glasgow than the noble Lord himself. In his absence, and with his approval, I rise to say that the Scotch Universities Commissioners offer no objection to the excision of the words objected to by the noble and learned Lord. They were certainly put in, in the first instance, on the advice and with the concurrence of those who were most competent to guide us on the subject; but I do not think that the full effects of the small change made at that time were appreciated. The words certainly destroy the balance between the subjects of examination, not only for entrance into the Universities but for the purposes of graduation; and, in assenting to the change, I quite agree with my noble and learned Friend (Lord Watson) that it will be necessary for us to exercise our discretion as to passing hereafter an explanatory or amending Ordinance in consequence of this change.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNBefore this question is put, might I ask for an explanation with regard to this Clause IV.? Sub-section (1) says that attendance on any class shall not qualify for graduation, and then follow Sub-sections (2) and (3), which refer to attendance on particular classes. I cannot myself understand why those sub-sections are needed, and I would 339 ask for an explanation. No. (1) appears to cover the two others.
§ *LORD SANDFORDIf the noble Lord will look at No. (1) I think he will see that it means that attendance at no class shall qualify for examination until the whole preliminary examination is passed, while No. (2) merely raised the second barrier in the erection of a higher standard of mathematics before a student can attend a qualifying class in that subject. This brought mathematics into conflict with natural philosophy, but there is really no discrepancy between the two sub-sections of Clause IV. of the Ordinance.
THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (The Marquess of LOTHIAN)My Lords, I have only to say that I made inquiries after the noble Lord put down the Motion upon the Paper, and I find that the Scottish Universities Commission, who framed this Ordinance, are entirely in favour of the Motion of the noble and learned Lord, and also that the Universities themselves are in favour of it. Under those circumstances I have no objection to offer to the Motion of the noble and learned Lord.
§ Motion put, and agreed to.