Lords Sitting of 25 March 1890

REPRESENTATIVE PEERS FOR IRELAND.
Lord Louth.—Petition of Randal Pilgrim Ralph Plunkett Baron of Louth in the Peerage of Ireland, claiming a right to vote at the elections of Representative Peers for Ireland; read, and referred to the Lord Chancellor to consider and report thereupon to the House.
Earl Mount Cashell, Earl of Longford. Viscount Frankfort de Montmorency, Viscount Lifford, claims to vote for Representative Peers for Ireland— Ordered and directed, that Certificates lie sent by the Clerk of the Parliaments to the Clerk of the Crown in Ireland, stating that the Lord Chancellor of the United Kingdom has reported to the House of Lords that the right of the Earl Mount Cashell, the Earl of Longford, the Viscount Frankfort de Montmorency, and the Viscount Lifford, to vote at the elections of Representative Peers for Ireland has been established to the satisfaction of him the said Lord Chancellor; and that the House of Lords has Ordered such Reports to be sent to the said Clerk of the Crown in Ireland: And it is hereby also Ordered, that the said Reports of the said Lord Chancellor be sent to the Clerk of the Crown in Ireland.

PUBLIC TRUSTEE BILL.—(No. 19.)
Reported from the Standing Committee for Bills relating to Law, &c. (on Second Re-commitment), with Amendments: The Report thereof received; and Bill re-committed to a Committee of the whole House on Thursday next; and to be printed as amended. (No. 47.)

COUNTS COUNCILS ASSOCIATION EXPENSES BILL.—(No. 32.)
Commons Amendments to Lords Amendments and Commons Consequential Amendments and Commons Reason for disagreeing to certain other of the Lords Amendments considered (according to Order).
LORD NORTON: My Lords, I beg to call your Lordships' attention to the fact that these Amendments are not yet printed. We know nothing of them. For my own part, I protest strongly against the Bill itself. I think it is a must mischievous measure, and I wish there were still time to move its rejection. It is a Bill to authorise all County Councils to desert their proper duties and form themselves into a Consultative Association to discuss and interfere in matters which, though locally interesting, belong to Parliament. That is a very mischievous thing, and though the noble and learned Lord has stated that Municipal Councils have something similar, yet I think it is carrying the Municipal precedent too far that County Councils should imitate Municipal Councils in that respect. I think your Lordships will hold that it is a mischievous thing to turn these County Councils into a sort of Local Parliaments, to debate instead of to administer definite functions. I do hope the noble and learned' Lord will postpone his Motion. For aught I know the Commons' Amendments may have altered the character of the Bill materially, and have made it more presentable, but, at all events, he will agree that we should know what they are before we pass a measure of this kind which we are now asked to pass. It degrades this House to pass things in the dark.
LORD HERSCHELL: I think when I explain what these Amendments are for the noble Lord will see not only that they do no harm but that they are in the direction he desires. As the Bill left this House, it enabled subscriptions to be paid to any association for the purpose of consulting on matters of interest in common to County Councils. The President of the Local Government Board thought there might be, under that provision, power to the County Councils to subscribe to several such associations, not limiting it to one only. On his Motion in another place, the Bill has been altered in that respect, and it now recites that County Councils may only subscribe to one such association whereas previously, perhaps, it might have been thought that subscriptions might have been made to several. That

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is the only alteration that has been made in the Bill, and, as I have stated, it is strictly in the direction of limitation, not of extension.
Commons Amendments to Lords Amendments, and Commons Consequential Amendments, agreed to; and the Lords Amendments, to which the Commons have disagreed, not insisted on.
House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, till to-morrow, half past Ten o'clock.