COMMITTEE. (Hansard, 10 July 1890)

§ *EARL BEAUCHAMP
This clause gives power to the County Council, or any Committee appointed under this Act, to make use of any public elementary schoolroom, that is to say, where the school is receiving a grant for the purpose of elementary education. The purposes described are three-fold: one is for the purpose of an inquiry under this Act; and another is for the purposes of this Act by the County Council or any Committee appointed under this Act. Those are two of the purposes for which the schoolrooms may be compulsorily used; and if the clause had rested there I do not think I should have troubled your Lordships with any Amendment. But the clause goes further, and says that the schoolroom may be used for the purpose of holding public meetings to discuss any question relating to the subject of Allotments under this Act or the principal Act. That is a wholly novel use to which our schoolrooms are to be applied, and I think your Lordships should consider well whether you will give the powers asked for. I should explain that my Amendment ought to come, not in line 31, but in line 32. I do not propose to interfere in any way with the use of the schoolrooms for the purposes of this Act, either by the County Council or by the Committee, but when you go further than that and say that they are to be used for the purpose of public meetings being called by persons who are in no degree responsible, I think the power should not be given. It does not say who the meetings are to be convened by, or under what limitations the schoolrooms are to be used, and I think your Lordships will see you would be making a grave innovation on the rights of property. These schools may be assisted with public money, but many of them have been built under trust deeds for the purpose of education, and they are limited in that way in regard to the purposes for which they may be used. There are, of course, 1254 discretionary powers for the purpose of enlarging the use of those schoolrooms by particular persons and under proper safeguards. Those safeguards are wholly wanting in the clause. Therefore, I propose that the consent of the freeholder should be required when the schoolroom is used not under the authority previously mentioned, but by irresponsible persons for public meetings. It is a notorious fact that many schoolrooms which receive grants of public money for the purpose of elementary education are still the property of private persons, and I do not see why, where benevolent persons have built schoolrooms, free of any charge upon them by way of rent, for certain definite purposes, they are to find those purposes suddenly enlarged, and the buildings which were intended for the purpose of education, should be applied to purposes wholly dissimilar, without any consent of theirs, and without any proper limitations or safeguards. Therefore, I move that in line 32, after "Act or," these words should be inserted "with the consent of the freeholder." That will ensure that proper care will be taken in so using the schools, because the freeholder will, of course, not give his consent unless he feels satisfied that the persons holding the meeting are responsible persons. Therefore, I hope your Lordships will assent to the addition of those words, which will ensure proper care and afford a safeguard that our schools shall not be left, without any control or limitation, in the hands of irresponsible persons. The words, if inserted there, will not interfere in any way with the legitimate operation of the Act; they will only tend to prevent the holding of possibly disorderly meetings.

*THE PAYMASTER GENERAL (The Earl of JERSEY)
I am afraid I cannot accept the Amendment of the noble Lord, though certainly the altered position in which he proposes now that it should be placed in the Bill would somewhat limit its application. I am afraid that if the consent of the freeholder had to be obtained, it would, in some cases, defeat the intention of this clause. The 1255 object of this clause is to enable the people in the locality to hold meetings in village schoolrooms in reference to allotments. Now, the freeholders may be represented in various ways; they may be represented sometimes by the School Board, sometimes by Trustees. In rural places, the School Boards seldom meet more than once a month; and Trustees may be scattered all over the country, so that there would be great difficulty in obtaining their consent. However, as, on the Report, I propose to add some words with reference to the meetings to be held, perhaps it may meet the convenience of the noble Lord to postpone the consideration of this proposal until the Report.

§ *EARL BEAUCHAMP
As I understand, from what the noble Lord has said, that he looks with considerable satisfaction upon the proposed alteration, I will not trouble your Lordships with it further on this occasion, but raise it on a later stage.