Lords Sitting of 4 July 1890

COMMISSION.
The following Bills received the Royal Assent:—
Suck River Drainage (Provision of Funds).
Herring Fishery (Scotland) Act (1889) Amendment.
Municipal Elections (Scotland).
Contagious Diseases (Animals) (Pleuro-pneumonia).
Electric Lighting Acts Amendment (Scotland).
Anglesey Assizes and Quarter Sessions.
Kew and Petersham Vicarage.
And a number of Private Bills.

OPEN SPACES BILL.—(No. 76.)
Returned from the Commons agreed to.
PHARMACY ACT (IRELAND) (1875) AMENDMENT BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a, and to be printed. (No. 172.)
FOREIGN JURISDICTION (CONSOLIDATION) BILL.—(No. 109.)
Read 3a (according to order), and passed, and sent to the Commons.
PARTNERSHIP BILL.—(No. 153.)
House in Committee (on Re-commitment) (according to order); Bill reported without further amendment; and to be read 3a on Monday next.
ALLOTMENTS ACT (1887) AMENDMENT BILL.—(No. 151.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
  *THE PAYMASTER GENERAL (The Earl of JKRSEY): My Lords, this is a measure to render the Allotments Act of 1887 more efficacious. It will be unnecessary for me to recount to your Lordships the provisions of the Act of 1887 or to dwell upon the advantages of
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  allotments. I think it is generally accepted now as an axiom that, for the labouring rural population, good allotments, at fair rents, within a reasonable distance, are necessary for every village. In this House there are many of your Lordships who have led the way in the matter of allotments long before there was any question of Acts of Parliament in the matter. By the 2nd clause of the Act of 1887 the duty was thrown upon the Sanitary Authority of acquiring land for allotments on certain conditions; but in that Act there was no appeal against the decision of the Sanitary Authority; and if the Sanitary Authority decided to reject an application on the part of the labourers for allotments, there the matter ended. This measure is to make good that omission. Within recent years no doubt the desire for allotments has very widely spread, and there has been fortunately a corresponding readiness on the part of landowners and others to meet that wish; but all rules Lave exceptions, and there have been some Sanitary Authorities who have, acted in a dilatory and unsatisfactory manner. In a county adjoining the one in which I live, there was a case which called forth a great deal of attention during the winter—the case of Twyford. In that village the labourers made a very reasonable request for allotments, but their request was treated in a very off-hand manner by the Sanitary Authority in the first place, and afterwards by the owner of the land, the Rector of Lincoln College, Oxford. Through the inaction of the one and the action of the other, those labourers have been entirely left out in the cold, and a sense of injustice has arisen which has spread far beyond the limits of that village. It is not possible for any Act of Parliament to remove every grievance or to make everybody wise and prudent; but it is possible for Parliament to lay down general principles for the protection and guidance of people; and if any admitted evil is found out, to remedy it as soon as possible. The present Bill will enable any six qualified persons to appeal to the County Council in cases where the Sanitary Authority has refused to put into force the provisions of the Act of 1887. The County Council are by the provisions of this Bill to appoint annually a Committee, not ex

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  ceeding one-fourth of the whole number of the Council as an Allotment Committee, to deal with these appeals, and, in order to prevent delay every appeal will be, as a, matter of course and without any Order of the Council, referred to the Standing Committee. It is also provided that, the elected representative of any village which may happen to appeal to the County Council will be added for that occasion to the Standing Committee. If that Committee is satisfied of the he bona fides of the appeal, they will cause a local inquiry to be made. They can make that local inquiry either through one or more of their members, or by any officer they may appoint for that purpose. After that local inquiry has been made the Report will then be referred to the County Council, and the Council, on being satisfied that the land for allotments should be acquired, will have to pass a resolution to that effect, and thereupon all the powers and the duties of the Sanitary Authority will, ipso facto, be transferred to the County Council. The Bill contains provisions necessary to enable the County Council to carry out the duties of the Sanitary Authority to borrow money and to repay it, and to make Provisional Orders for the compulsory purchase of land, but every Provisional Order will have to be submitted to Parliament. In any case where the County Council has acquired land under this Act, it can afterwards, if it is so minded, re-transfer their powers back to the Sanitary Authority. The Bill also provides, by the 5th clause, that schoolrooms may be used for meetings to be held under this or the principal Act. The Bill thus gives an appeal in cases, where the Sanitary Authority neglects its duty, to a popularly elected body, and will enable the County Council to put the provisions of the Act of 1887 into force without delay. I certainly hope these provisions will not often require to be put into force, because I believe that voluntary arrangements are more rapid and less expansive than any others; but I am quite sure that if these powers are given to the County Council, they will use them with due consideration. Public opinion on this subject has ripened considerably during the last few years. Those who live in the country know how greatly allotments are prized by the labourers.
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  We know the energy and skill they bring to their work, while we also know that the labourers only ask for fair terms. In such circumstances the landowners may well desire to meet the labourers' natural wishes. This measure, without claiming to be a great one, is brought forward by the Government with the intention of securing for all our agricultural population the advantages held out by the Act of 1887; and I feel confident that this House, comprising as it does many great landowners, will be only too ready to help forward this object. The lives of our agricultural labourers are not very much relieved by the excitement which is so attractive to dwellers in towns; but if, in substitution for those exciting pleasures, Parliament can create a sense of justice and contentment, their lot will be none the less happy, and their attachment to the soil, so important for many reasons, will gain fresh strength, and it will spring from sources injurious to none whilst beneficial and gratifying to themselves. I beg to move the Second Reading of the Bill.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a"—{The Earl of Jersey.)
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY: My Lords, I should be sorry that this Bill should pass without further remark, because, although it is a Bill which is very small indeed in itself, it relates to a subject of very considerable interest. I have not, as I need hardly say, the slightest objection to the Bill, which I think provides for what is much wanted. The only small criticism I shall make upon it is that I do not quite see why it is necessary by a Statute to compel the County Councils to appoint a Committee of certain particular members. I think that might have been left to the County Councils. However, that is a very minute and unimportant point. What I wish to remark upon is, that the noble Earl who moved the Bill spoke of it as securing to the labourer all the benefit of the Allotments Acts. I am afraid that is taking far too high a view of such a Bill as this. It will do something, no doubt, to remedy the difficulties; but the difficulties are far larger and wider than any which this Bill deals with at all. The point of difficulty, of course, is the compulsory taking of land. I am

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  far from desiring that the Sanitary Authorities should have to act at all in the matter; I think it is far more desirable that landowners should themselves supply the allotments and save the Sanitary Authorities from the necessity of interfering. One of my reasons for wishing that is—and I do not think that those who may not be very well acquainted with agricultural affairs give nearly enough consideration to that question—that a landlord, if disposed to let his land for this purpose, can do so considerably cheaper than it is possible for the Sanitary Authorities to carry out the matter. If you are to have Statutes, in whatever way you frame them, there must be expenses connected with their enforcement. All those expenses have to be defrayed out of the land, and, small as they may seem to be, I have known several cases where the expenses incurred by the Sanitary Authority, and not at all improperly incurred by them, have been such, when charged upon the land, as to make it impossible, in the opinion of the labourers, for them to hire it at the rent asked. These are very poor persons, and what may seem to us to be very small sums are really to them very considerable sums indeed. There is also this difficulty: That you are obliged under the present law—as I am told by those who put the Act into operation—to levy the whole of the expenses incurred upon the rent to be paid during the first year. These rents have, by the Acts, to be paid only from year to year, and the whole of the expenses incurred—and there are, I believe, some red-tape expenses which are perfectly unnecessary, in reference to maps and so on, imposed by the Local Government Board—have to be put on the rent of the first; year. It is very obvious that a labourer may, in that event, find the rent considerably more than he is willing to pay. My opinion is, that the law should be filtered in that respect, and that the Local Authority should have power to extend the expenses over several years, because it is not reasonable to suppose that one man should pay in one year the whole of the expenses connected with the allotment of the land. With regard to the compulsory powers, I think the machinery is too extensive. First, you have to go through the process of applying to the County Council; then
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  the County Council passes a Provisional Order; then that Provisional Order goes to the Local Government Board; and then it has to come before Parliament. And all this maybe with regard to three or four acres of land, which is let, perhaps, at 30s. an acre. I cannot help thinking that if we really intend to place these allotments within reach of a large number of labourers, we must give the County Council, in eases where the amount of land to be taken is not large. a final power of disposing of the whole matter. If you did that the expense would be small, the thing would be speedily disposed of, and I believe the labourers would be enabled to get their allotments. It seems to me that the compulsory power is not too large to be reposed in the County Council, but, of course, I would not allow them to dispose of the matter if the value of the land exceeded a certain sum to be fixed by Parliament. If it did, then it should go through another process. What I think is that if you intend really to place within the power of the labourers the boon which Parliament desires them to have, you must provide a cheap and easy mode of getting the land. The matter may seem to some of us not of great importance; but my point is that in many parts of the country it is of great importance to the agricultural labourers, who take great interest in the subject. Their position in some of the agricultural counties is not very happy, and their lot is not a bright one; their wages are very low, and there is not much chance for them to rise out of the position in which they find themselves; and I am glad to see that they are willing to take, and have taken, advantage of the Allotments Act. I am certain that it is to the interest not merely of the labourers themselves but of all landowners, because I believe that anything which attaches the labourer more to the place in which he lives and makes him willing to remain there is beneficial, and that you thereby strengthen altogether the whole framework of society in that part of the country. For those reasons, while I quite welcome this Bill as doing something that was needed, I sincerely trust that ere long Parliament will find time and a way of dealing more extensively with this subject and giving larger

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  facilities than exist at present for acquiring allotments.
  EARL BEAUCHAMP: I only rise to appeal to Her Majesty's Government whether it would not be better to let us deal with this Bill in Committee of the whole House, than that it should be sent to one of the Standing Committees. It is not a question of drafting or of any mere technicalities, but an important question affecting the agricultural interest; and I do therefore sincerely trust that the matter will come for discussion before a Committee of the whole House rather than be referred to a Standing Committee.
  *THE EARL OF JERSEY: I may say that it was my intention to refer it to a Committee of the whole House.
  On Question, agreed to.
  Bill read 2a (according to order), and committed to a Committee of the whole House on Thursday next.

HELIGOLAND.

  QUESTION—OBSERVATIONS.
  EARL DE LA WARR,in rising to ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is proposed in the arrangement for the cession of Heligoland to Germany to make the inhabitants in all respects subject to German laws; and whether the contemplated exemption from military conscription will apply only to persons now living, said: I should not have troubled your Lordships on this occasion had it not been for the very, I must say, vague and indefinite information which has been given by Her Majesty's Government relative to the proposed cession of Heligoland to Germany. I do not wish to enter upon the subject of the limits of secrecy claimed by the Foreign Office with regard to negotiations on Foreign Affairs—it is, no doubt, a very difficult one—but when the noble Marquess at the head of Foreign Affairs recently stated in this House that
  "It is a rule that has always been observed at the Foreign Office that discussions should not take place until negotiations of this kind are concluded,"
  I can hardly suppose that he intended to include in this the giving of such information as it might be convenient to give, as well as the liberty of discussion. That may be another question,
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  but there may be information which could be given perhaps without injury to the Public Service. I am asking only for information. It must be remembered that in the matter now under consideration—I mean the cession of Heligoland to Germany—it is a question of transferring to another European Power a dependency of this country, the population of which for a length of time has enjoyed the rights and privileges of British subjects. Now, it is hardly possible to suppose that in the cession of a country in which British subjects are living, especially when that cession is made to a country like Germany, whose principles of Government differ so materially from those of this country. the population can retain these or similar rights and privileges. Yet I see it was recently stated, as reported, by the First Lord of the Treasury in another place—
  "That the utmost care had been taken in the Agreement with Germany to secure for the inhabitants the continuance of the privileges they had hitherto enjoyed."
  If this be so, my objections to the cession of Heligoland would be materially lessened. But, on the other hand, as I understand from the recent Despatch of the noble Marquess, Her Majesty's Government propose to stipulate that persons only now living should be free from naval and military conscription, and, consequently, that future generations should be subject to that oppressive law. I can hardly reconcile these conflicting statements, or conceive how it can be said that the continuance of the privileges which they have hitherto enjoyed has been secured for the inhabitants, if the immunities of those who are now British subjects are not to be continued to their children and those that come after them. Unless very clear and definite terms are imposed, it cannot, I think, be doubted that if Heligoland is annexed to Germany, without definite stipulations as to the rights and privileges as British subjects which are to be secured to the inhabitants, burdens will be imposed upon them which to them have been hitherto unknown; and you will be giving over a free and contented population who have hitherto enjoyed the rights of British subjects to become subjects of a country

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  burdened with taxation and oppressed by naval and military conscription.
  THE PRIME MINISTER AND SECRETARY OF STATE TOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Marquess of SALISBURY): In answer to a letter which my noble Friend addressed to me I informed him that we had laid the Agreement, which was signed on Tuesday night, on the Table of your Lordships' House. I ventured to submit that I thought perhaps it would be better to defer all questions as to the nature of the Agreement until the Instrument is in the hands of the House. I still think that, on the whole, that would be the more convenient arrangement. I will only say, with regard to what has fallen from my noble Friend, that if Heligoland becomes German soil those who inhabit it will be subject to German laws, but that we have made a special exception in favour of all persons now living, that they shall not be subject to that which British subjects are not subject to, namely, conscription for the Military and Naval Services. I will take this opportunity of saying that I shall ask the House to-night to read the Bill for the cession of Heligoland a first time, and on Thursday next I shall move the Second Reading of the Bill.

  WORKING CLASSES DWELLINGS BILL. (No. 107.)
  House in Committee (on Re-commitment) (according to order); Bill reported without amendment; and to be read 3a on Monday next.

  CITY OF PARIS.
  Copy of the Report of the inquiry into the causes of the accident which recently happened to the passenger ship City of Paris.
  Ordered to be laid before the House—(The Earl De La Warr.)

  DEEDS OF ARRANGEMENT BILL. (No. 106.)
  Read 3a (according to order) with the amendment, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
  REGISTRATION OF VOTERS (BOROUGH OF BELFAST) BILL.—(No. 91.)
  Read 3a (according to order) with the amendment; a further amendment made; Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.

  ANGLO-GERMAN AGREEMENT CONFIRMATION BILL.
  A Bill for the purpose of removing doubts with respect to the validity of an agreement between Her Majesty and the Emperor of Germany—Was presented by the Marquess of Salisbury; read 1a; to be printed: and to be read 2a on Thursday next. (No. 180.)
  House adjourned at five minutes past Five o'clock, to Monday next, a quarter past Four o'clock.