§ VISCOUNT SIDMOUTHMy Lords, I wish to repeat a question which has now been before us for three Sessions. Three Sessions ago I asked my noble Friend representing the Admiralty whether they hoped to construct a dock at Gibraltar. 1484 Some notice was given to my request, but I was told that the Admiralty had not made up their minds upon the subject. Since then, as I understand, a member of the Board has been out to Gibraltar, and in company with scientific engineers has examined the various sites. The Report appears to have been favourable, and we are again told that the Admiralty are considering the question. My Lords, I am afraid the Government have been somewhat deterred by a speech which was made last year by my noble Friend Lord Carnarvon, whose opinion must carry great weight although it is a non-professional opinion. His objection to the dock was based on two grounds. He first stated that the anchorage at Gibraltar was very unsafe, and then he said, what was partially true no doubt, that wherevera dock might be constructed it would be exposed to hostile batteries from the Spanish shore. With regard to the first question, I would merely remark that if there is any one position in which a ship might be safer in harbour than another, it is when she is in dry dock; and if the question of the erection of batteries on the Spanish shore is supposed to be against the construction of a dock at Gibraltar, I can only say that the same objection applies to all docks, arsenals, and works to which we have gone on adding for a series of years. It is very doubtful, from whatever point hostilities might come, whether any batteries could be erected which could not be commanded by the Rock battery; or supposing there should be anything that could harm us, to which we could not speedily reply by armaments sent out from our own arsenals. If it is a question of working batteries it would be probably "para mañana" with the Spaniards (an expression implying delay in Spanish), and I think we could supply heavier guns from England than any hostile Power could place to command the Gibraltar dock. I hope the Government are considering this question, and the reason I bring it forward now is that it may be taken into consideration before the Estimates are passed, and not delayed for another year. I need not remind my noble Friend, who is a naval man himself, how important it is that some means of repairing our ironclads abroad, or in the I Mediterranean, should be found in addition 1485 to Malta. I venture to point out again that there is at this moment a fleet worth £10,000,000 sterling in the Mediterranean, and that there is no provision made for repairs except at Malta. I think there are three or four large docks at Malta; but suppose you go to war, and any of our large ironclads are disabled, there is really nowhere else to repair those ships unless they are taken away from the Mediterranean to Plymouth, as our nearest dockyard. In the present state of dock accommodation in the East Indies, men-of-war have been actually taken from the East India Stations because they could not be repaired on the East India Stations (I may say that with regard to that I shall have a question to ask by-and-bye), and they have had to be repaired at Malta. If you go to war your ships will be subject to hostile attacks in the East and in the Mediterranean, and very likely on the coasts of Spain. Your docks would be crowded at Malta; you would not be in the position of Lord Collingwood after Trafalgar, when there was no enemy to oppose him, and he could send his ships home to be repaired; but you would have to send your ships home 2,000 or 3,000 miles to your nearest port—Plymouth, in the face of an enemy. I very much fear from what I hear that the Government are grudging the expense of £350,000 which would be necessary for the construction of a dock, and that they are offering some subvention to private companies in the matter. I venture to suggest that if that is so, it is a policy unworthy of this great country to hand over the safeguarding of the vast property which I have mentioned to the enterprise of some private company, and that they should undertake as the only step worthy of this great country to at once commence this dock and pay for it themselves; and that they should lose no time about it, for it is impossible that a dock could be constructed under two or three years, and if any hostile operations take place in the future it may not be constructed in time.
§ LORD BRASSEYMy Lards, before the noble Lord replies, there are two considerations which I should like to put in the briefest terms with regard to what has fallen from the noble Viscount. First, it is proposed that the dock at 1486 Gibraltar should be constructed as a convenience and facility to commerce. That part of the sea is crowded with our shipping, and I can only say, having been frequently at Gibraltar, that I never visited the place without seeing a number of steamers under repair there. It does seem unsatisfactory that in the contingency of war the Mercantile Marine should be entirely dependent for its coal supply afloat on the hulks in the Bay of Gibraltar, every one of which might be sunk by torpedoes on a dark night or in foggy weather. I think that is one very great argument for the construction of a dock.
§ LORD ELPHINSTONEMy Lords, no one who has studied the subject, especially with the aid of a map, will be surprised at the interest which has been shown in it on several occasions by the noble Viscount when he has, from time to time, brought the matter before this House. This is not the second, or even the third, time that he has brought it forward. Naval Commanders-in-Chief in the Mediterranean have from time to time pointed out to the Admiralty the advantage we should derive from having a first-class dock at Gibraltar, and the Admiralty fully concur in the view which has been so generally pressed upon them on the subject. The Admiralty fully admit the absolute necessity in time of war of having at that station such a dock as would be capable of accommodating our largest ships. Hitherto there have been difficulties in the way into which I need not enter, but which your Lordships will readily understand. Even now, the Estimates having been framed for this year, it has been thought better that the works should be undertaken by private enterprise rather than by Her Majesty's Government. Various Bodies have approached the Admiralty with the view to undertaking the construction of the dock, and now we are only waiting for some further particulars before deciding upon the details of the matter. The Director of Works was recently out on the spot, and of the various sites suggested he selected one upon the new Mole Parade Ground, in close proximity to the dockyard. The new dock which it has been decided to construct is to be 520ft. long and 100ft. wide, and capable of taking a ship drawing 32ft. of water 1487 on the blocks. In the event of a ship being partially damaged, having one of her compartments full and not being on an even keel, we shall be able to dock a ship drawing 35ft. of water without the blocks, and at high tide as much as 37ft. of water. Our longest man-of-war is 410ft.in length, and the greatest draught of water of any of our ships is 28ft., so that we shall have ample space. Another matter which has been considered of the greatest importance is the extension of the Mole, and it has been thought desirable that the work should be undertaken simultaneously with the dock. It is proposed that it should be increased in length by 1,600ft., and it is thought that the excavations of rock to form the dock, which will be 80ft. in depth from the surface, will go a long way, if not completely, towards the formation of the new Mole extension. The advantage of the site chosen for the docks is that it will be protected by rising ground under the lee of which it will be placed from the fire of ships at sea. On that rising ground, there are ramparts already placed. A further advantage will be that the entrance will have the protection of the Mole. It will not interfere in any way with the very limited space which now exists inside the Mole for anchorage. Moreover, the cost of the works on this side will be less than on any other that has been proposed. I will take this opportunity of referring to a matter upon which a good deal has been said. The idea has got abroad that Her Majesty's Government propose to construct docks, or the protection for the docks, on ground belonging to Spain. No such idea has ever entered the heads of Her Majesty's Government. It is true that among the many schemes from time to time suggested to the Admiralty there was one for making a canal along the north side of the Rock, and that scheme proposed that the canal should be used for coaling and docking purposes; but though supported by Sir John Burgoine it was strongly condemned by Lord Napier and especially by Sir J. Adye, the late Governor of Gibraltar, on military grounds. So far as the Admiralty are concerned the scheme has never even been before them officially. The scheme, I can only say, has been condemned, and wherever the idea originated it has never been 1488 entertained for a moment by any Department of Her Majesty's Government.
§ VISCOUNT SIDMOUTHThen I understand my noble Friend to say that the dock is to be constructed partly by private enterprise?
§ LORD ELPHINSTONENo; entirely.
§ VISCOUNT SIDMOUTHWill that fact occasion any delay?
§ LORD ELPHINSTONEWe hope not; we hope to get the specifications in a very few days.