SECOND READING. (Hansard, 25 February 1890)

THE BISHOP OF CARLISLE

My Lords, the Bill for which I have to ask a Second Reading this evening is, I believe, identically the same as that which was passed by your Lordships two Sessions ago, and therefore it might seem that I should best discharge the duty I have to perform by simply asking for the Second Reading. But I bear in mind that a great deal has passed during these two years, and also that in all probability—I may say, certainly—many of your Lordships are not as familiar with the subject of cathedrals and cathedral churches as I am myself. I may tell your Lordships that, as Dean of Ely, I served a long apprenticeship in matters affecting cathedrals, and it was in the course of that apprenticeship that I learned the details of the governing rules and regulations under the Cathedral Statutes. The fact is that a large number of our cathedrals—I will not say all of them, but certainly a large number of them—are placed in the position of having Statutes of considerable antiquity, which, like many other antiquated things, are totally unfit for present-day use. For example, the Statutes of the Cathedral of Ely date from the reign of Charles II., and those of the Cathedral of Carlisle, with which I am now connected, date from the time of King Henry VIII. I need not say that many things have happened since even the later of those two dates, and that it is probable changes will be required in the rules and regulations with regard to those cathedrals, as in reference to others similarly constituted; but the cathedrals a re in the unfortunate position that they have stereotyped Statutes which nothing short of an Act of Parliament can change. I brought the subject before this House more than 10 years ago; and on that occasion the late Lord Beaconsfield, who had had his mind independently directed to the subject, proposed that a Royal Commission should be appointed for the purpose of going into the whole subject of cathedrals and their government. Her Majesty was pleased, at the recommendation of Lord Beaconsfield, to appoint such a Commission, and I had the honour to serve upon it. The late Archbishop and a number of gentlemen, including the 1132 present Lord President of the Council, worked very hard upon it for a number of years. We took a great deal of evidence with, regard to the different cathedrals; we made a Report as instructed by the Commission upon each cathedral separately; and we presented a General Report as to what we thought ought to be done upon this subject. This Bill is the outcome of the recommendations of Her Majesty's then Commissioners. It was discussed, though not exactly in its present form, two years ago in your Lordships' House, and after being considerably discussed it was modified in Committee, and it has now got into such a condition that I am able to say it is approved of by all those who are intimately connected with these matters—that is to say, all the Cathedral Bodies, I believe, without exception, are desirous that this Bill should pass, and there is no substantial opposition to it in any quarter whatever. Now, what has been the history of this Bill? I had the honour of introducing it two Sessions ago into this House, and, as I have said, it was then carefully discussed and modified and brought into its present form. It went then to the House of Commons, and there, like a great many other Bills, was altogether lost—it went in, but it never came out. Last year it was thought desirable to try the opposite course of introducing the Bill first into the House of Commons, in the hope that if we had a favourable ballot it might stand a chance of being read a second time. Well, my Lords, we had a most unfavourable ballot—I think the number we drew was about 289, or some such comfortable number, and the result was, as might have been expected, that it never came on at all. It was blocked by one Member, and I cannot find that there was any other Member who sympathised with him. At all events, that delightful process of blocking, which is so great an institution in another place, entirely defeated this Bill, and it never came on for a Second Reading at all. It is no use complaining in this House of what takes place in the other; but it is, at all events, a relief to my feelings to say that I think it is a hard case that a Bill which has practically met with no opposition, simply owing to certain rules and regulations of the House of Commons, has never had an opportunity given to it of 1133 any opinion being expressed upon it at all. I know positively that the leaders in the House of Commons are in favour of it; and I know, certainly, that if it had u chance of coming to a Second Reading it would pass without difficulty; and yet, owing, as I have said, to certain technical rules, the Bill could not come before the House; and last year it accordingly died what may be called a natural death. This year I do not know what the success of the Bill may be, but it has been thought wise to begin the process the other way; to ask your Lordships to be kind enough to give it a Second Reading in this House, and then to send it down to the other House, in the hope that it may possibly get a Second Reading there. It is very difficult to prophecy what may happen; at all events, it is very difficult to prophecy at present with regard to the Bill; but I cannot help thinking that seeing the importance of the subject with which it deals, and the fact that it is the result of the hard work of those who sat on the Royal Commission, there must be sufficient freedom and wisdom in the House of Commons to give it a Second Reading. My Lords, I can only conclude by saying that having worked upon this subject for a number of years, and having given to it a great deal of time and attention, the day will certainly be one of the happiest of my life in which this Bill having been passed Her Majesty shall be pleased to give her assent to it.