SECOND READING. (Hansard, 28 June 1889)

* THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN
, in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, said: My Lords, the object of this Bill is to alter and amend previous Acts relating to the herring fishery on the coasts of Scotland. The principal provision of the Bill is contained in Clause 6, the object of which is to close the territorial waters in Scotland against trawlers. In 1882 an Act was passed taking away the control of the fishery interests of Scotland from the Board of Manufacturers, and creating a Fisheries Board. In 1883 and 1881 a Commission, presided over by Lord Dalhousie, went most carefully through all the details of this question among others, and the result of their inquiry and Report was that an Act was passed in 1885 with reference to trawling in the territorial waters of Scotland. By that Act the Fishery Board was empowered to make bye-laws from time to time closing 975 various districts of the territorial waters of Scotland against trawlers under certain conditions, two of which were: first, that they should be satisfied that the trawling in the waters which they proposed to close was actually doing such damage to the line and drift net fishing as to justify their intervention; and, secondly, that it was necessary to close those waters for the purpose of experiment. Any order or byelaw made by the Fishery Board was subject, of course, to confirmation by the Secretary for Scotland. The result of the exercise of these powers by the Fishery Board up to the present time has been that nearly the whole of the east coast of Scotland has been closed against trawlers. Last year, it having been found that on the west coast of Scotland, in the Firth of the Clyde, considerable injury had been done by the trawlers, and the Fisheries Board proposed a bye law to close the Firth of the Clyde; but upon its being submitted to me for confirmation, I referred the bye-law to my legal advisers, and I found that as proposed by the Fisheries Board it was ultra vires, and therefore I was unable to confirm the bye-law, and at this moment the Firth of the Clyde is open to trawlers. Since that time the controversy between the trawling fishery and the other fisheries of Scotland has gone on, and I have referred this question, as a whole, to the Fisheries Board for their advice and opinion as to the propriety of closing the whole of the territorial waters against trawling; and after inquiry they recommended that that course should be taken. It is with that object that the present Bill was introduced into the House of Commons and now comes before your Lordships, and I trust that your Lordships will pass it practically with out Amendment. I am convinced that the measure will be of advantage to the fishing interest of Scotland generally. That interest is not in so flourishing a condition at the present time that it is not deserving of every encouragement that can properly be given to it. With regard to the east coast, there is no very great difficulty in fixing the limits of territorial waters, because between Her Majesty's Government and what I may call the riparian Powers on the North Sea, there is a Fisheries Con- 976 vention; but on the west coast there is no such Convention, and therefore it has been thought desirable to attach a schedule to this Bill in order to show exactly which are the waters closed against trawlers apart altogether from the general international rule as to the three-mile limit. I may add that power is given to the Fisheries Board, subject to the confirmation of the Secretary for Scotland, to re-open particular waters to the trawlers. That is found necessary, among other reasons, because there are certain classes of fish which cannot be taken except by trawlers, and by them only at certain seasons of the year. Those are the main principles of this Bill, but there are subsidiary clauses to which I would just like to refer for one moment, especially Clause 4. Clause 4 provides fur the use of cran or quarter cran measures. That does not apply in any sense to the measures for sale by the fish-curers to general customers; it simply refers to the measures to be-used in the sale by the fishermen themselves to the fish curers. The object of the alteration of the law is simply this: at present fish is generally in baskets containing crans of 37½ gallons, but it is found that these crans or baskets when they get old undergo a very great alteration in their size and capacity, and by this Bill a fixed and standard measure is provided, by which, under penalties, the sale of herrings is to be regulated. I do not propose to load this Bill with any clauses with reference to another matter, but I think I may find it necessary on a future occasion to ask your Lordships to deal with it—I mean the regulation of the measures under which the fish curers sell their fish into foreign markets. The question is a complicated one, and as it is not included in this Bill, I will not further refer to it now. Clause 5 has been put in entirely at the wish of those who are interested in the subject to which it refers. It renders illegal daylight fishing, and Sunday fishing. It has been found that the fishers of the Clyde district wish that there shall be no Sunday fishing, and the clause refers only to a limited district. I do not think there is any other clause to which I need call your Lordships' attention, and I will now ask your Lordships to give the Bill a Second Reading.

§ THE EARL OF WEMYSS
I do not rise for the purpose of in any way opposing the Second Reading of this Bill, which I hope will, on the whole, be of advantage to the fisheries of Scotland. There is a provision in this Bill which I shall ask you to resist when we go into Committee. I mean the 5th Clause, to which my noble Friend has referred, which provides for the infliction of heavy penalties for setting or shooting any herring nets between sunrise on Saturday morning, and one hour before sunset on Monday evening. I shall in Committee propose to omit that clause.

* THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN
I regret that the noble Lord has given notice of his intention to move the omission of this clause. I would like to point out to the noble Lord, in the first place, that as I said just now, the clause was introduced at the desire of those most directly concerned—namely, the Association of Fishermen in the Firth of the Clyde; and, in the second place, the clause is by no means a new one. In an Act of George III. herring fishing, or any fishing whatever, is prohibited between the hours of 12 o'clock on Saturday night and 12 o'clock on Sunday night. I hope that the Bill will be allowed to pass as it stands. I may say that when I first drew this clause I thought there would be some objection to it. I thought it was rather too arbitrary, but on finding that it was supported by the fishing people themselves, I thought that there could be no objection to it.

§ THE EARL OF WEMYSS
I may say that I am not convinced by the argument of the noble Marquess, and I shall certainly endeavour in Committee to induce your Lordships to omit this clause.