Lords Sitting of 3 June 1889

LORD ASHTOWN'S AND LORD DUNALLEY'S CLAIMS TO VOTE FOR REPRESENTATIVE PEERS FOR IRELAND.
Ordered, and directed,
That a Certificate be sent by the Clerk of the Parliaments to the Clerk of the Crown in Ireland, stating that the Lord Chancellor of the United Kingdom has reported to the House of Lords that the right of the Lord Ashtown and the Lord Dunalley to vote at the elections of Representative Peers of Ireland has been established to the satisfaction of him the said Lord Chancellor; and that the House of Lords has ordered such Reports to be sent to the said Clerk of the Crown in Ireland; and it is hereby also Ordered, That the said Reports of the said Lord Chancellor be sent to the Clerk of the Crown in Ireland.
The Lord Plunket—Took the Oath.

CAPE COLONY—RETIREMENT OF SIR HERCULES ROBINSON.

  QUESTIONS—OBSERVATIONS.
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNMy Lords, seeing the noble Lord the Secretary of State for the Colonies in his place, I wish to ask him a question with reference to a statement which appears in the public Press this morning. It is stated that it is not probable that Sir Hercules Robinson will return as Governor to the Cape. I wish to ask the noble Lord whether there is any truth in the statement?
  LORD KNUTSFORDMy Lords, it is true that Sir H. Robinson has decided to retire, and that Her Majesty's Government have accepted that resignation. Questions requiring very careful consideration have lately arisen in South
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  Africa, and Her Majesty's Government desired to learn from Sir H. Robinson himself his views upon these and other subjects. Sir Hercules Robinson came over and has stated to me his general views, and they will shortly be brought under the consideration of Her Majesty's Government. It is evident that Her Majesty's Government could not immediately, and without the full consideration which the importance of the case demands, give that assurance of concurrence and support which he desired. I gladly take this opportunity of expressing to your Lordships the deep sense which Her Majesty's Government entertain of the very exceptional and valuable services which Sir H. Robinson has rendered during his prolonged tenure of office at the Cape. By his able administration of other important colonies he has earned a high and well-deserved reputation, and by his services to the Cape Colony and, indeed I may say the whole of South Africa, he has not only maintained but added to that reputation. Perhaps I may be allowed to add that in the settlement of the questions under consideration, it will be especially the desire of Her Majesty's Government to maintain those friendly and cordial relations with the South African Republic and the Orange Free State which Sir H. Robinson did so much to secure.
  THE EARL OF CARNARVONMy Lords, I was not aware until I came into the House this moment that this important question had been raised, and in ordinary circumstances I certainly should have preferred to remain silent. But inasmuch as Parliament rises in 24 hours, and as the subject is one of such great moment, I feel it would not be right to refrain from

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  making a few observations on the subject. If your Lordships think, however, that I may be out of order in doing so, I shall put myself in order by moving the adjournment of the House. I heard with pleasure the remarks which my noble Friend, the Colonial Secretary, made with reference to Sir Hercules Robinson's past career. He did not, in my opinion, express too strongly the praise which is due to that eminent public servant. For 47 years Sir H. Robinson has discharged succesfully all the most important duties that can fall to the lot of a Colonial Governor. He has had tasks placed upon him from which most men would flinch. He has accomplished them with admirable judgment, capacity, and loyalty to the Crown. He carries with him into retirement an unblemished character; and I say deliberately that I know no one in the ranks of the Colonial Service who is more entitled to the, highest eulogies that can be passed upon him than is Sir Hercules Robinson. But there is something more than this. He united to success, in administration a special and exceptional knowledge of South African affairs. I venture to say that there is no man living who is so well qualified to speak, who is so intimately familiar with that network of difficult politics which exist in South Africa; and he has succeeded partly by his wide knowledge, partly by capacity, partly by character in inspiring a sense of confidence in the Government, in the Parliament, in the people of South Africa, and also in the Orange Free State and the Transvaal. My noble Friend, the Colonial Secretary, touched very lightly indeed upon the reasons which had induced Sir H. Robinson to retire, and knowing, as I do, those reasons, judging of them also from that which is public property—the telegram which has appeared in the newspapers—I do not think I shall be acting fairly by Sir H. Robinson if I do not point out to your Lordships that the reason why he retires is not so much that his policy should be considered here at home, as it is that Her Majesty's Government, as I understand, distinctly refuse to give an assurance of that support without which he cannot return to his arduous duties. My Lords, the telegram which appeared in this morning's papers distinctly stated that, and
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  I do not think the Colonial Secretary will for a moment attempt to qualify it. The words of the telegram are to the effect that inasmuch as Her Majesty's Government are not prepared to give an assurance that they agree with and are prepared to give support to Sir H. Robinson, on those grounds he has felt it to be his duty to retire. It is a very serious matter, my Lords. I do not know that there has been anything in Colonial politics for many years that is altogether more grave or possibly pregnant with more serious results. Sir H. Robinson came home to discuss his position. Her Majesty's Government tell him, as I understand, that they are not prepared to acquiesce in his views, or to support him. What is the policy which is thus, I was going to say, indirectly, but I will say, emphatically, disapproved? My Lords, there has been, I perceive, in some of the public prints a misunderstanding as to particular phrases and terms in Sir H. Robinson's speech when he left Cape Town amid an ovation — there is no other word for it—of all classes and sections of the community; there has been some misunderstanding here in England as to the precise value of some of the words he used, and which the English people have naturally misunderstood, but which are perfectly well known to colonial ears. The policy which Sir H. Robinson enunciated in that speech, I say deliberately, was an old policy, a policy that had been pursued for years; certainly pursued during the whole tenure of office of my noble Friend the Colonial Secretary. It was a policy which had received his sanction and the sanction of Her Majesty's Government; it was one which I cannot conceive being called in question as containing any new or doubtful elements. My Lords, the policy was simply this. It was the policy of responsible Government, the acceptance of responsible Government in its fulness, as against some theory of establishing Crown colonies in the centre of South Africa, Crown colonies cut off from the sea, Crown colonies with which we can have no connection except through responsible Governments, Crown colonies, in fact, which would have to depend absolutely for their very existence upon those responsible Governments. My Lords, though there are many outlying

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  districts in that part of South Africa which for a time it may be necessary to govern as Crown colonies—it is reasonable, it is necessary, that they should perhaps be so governed, some as Crown colonies, some as protectorates, some as falling within the sphere of Imperial influence—I challenge any man to read the speech of Sir H. Robinson and to doubt that, when he spoke of those Colonies, he did not mean that they were to be absorbed immediately, but that in the fulness of time and when the occasion came they would ultimately devolve upon Cape Colony. That is my view; that is the belief of every man who knows the subject; and Sir H. Robinson distinctly so stated. My Lords, my noble Friend the Colonial Secretary has stated in the few remarks he has made that the idea of Her Majesty's Government is that they must consider maturely the policy of Sir H. Robinson. I think my noble Friend when he advanced a doctrine of that kind can hardly have reflected upon what he said.
  LORD KNUTSFORDI did not say that that was the idea of Her Majesty's Government; what I said was that grave questions had lately arisen in South Africa, and that the Government desired to have the opinion of Sir H. Robinson upon them.
  THE EARL OF CARNARVONThen, my Lords, I must ask on what ground is it that this experienced administrator, this successful Colonial Governor, is disapproved? Because Her Majesty' Government, in the words of the telegram, if it is correct, will neither acquiesce in his policy nor support him it South Africa. I do not think my noble Friend or any one else can explain this apparent inconsistency. There is a great deal to be said on this matter much more (for it is an immense subject) than I can trouble your Lordship: with this evening. I shall, however deliberately and distinctly assert three things at this moment—first of all whatever be the result of the deliberations of Her Majesty's Government whosoever they may choose to go out to South Africa to succeed Sir H. Robin son must pursue the same course of policy which he has pursued and which he has enunciated. No one who knew anything of this matter and went ow with different views would be other than insane, for he would be setting
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  himself in direct opposition to the Colonial Government and Parliament; he would go to certain defeat; and whatever others less familiar with this question may think, the Colonial Secretary knows enough to understand that I am speaking the indisputable truth. Secondly, he must not only go prepared to carry out the policy of his disapproved predecessor, but he must be prepared to enunciate publicly that he agrees with Sir H. Robinson and is prepared to carry out that policy. My Lords, if that be so, men will ask again why you sent out a successor who is to be identified with that very policy which you are now directly disapproving, and why you do not send out the man who has been more than any other identified with the politics of South Africa? Thirdly, whoever goes out, however high his attainments or his position, will have to meet this difficulty—he will find it extremely hard to persuade the people, the Government, the Parliament of Cape Colony, the two Dutch communities of the Transvaal and the Orange Free State, that he goes bonâ fide to carry out the policy which I say has been indirectly condemned here. My Lords, I am exceedingly sorry to find this fault. My noble Friend the Colonial Secretary will do me the justice to admit that I have never been fond of fault-finding, and I have on more than one occasion suppressed my opinions out of deference to my noble Friend when I have disagreed in certain measures that were taken. But, my Lords, we are now on the verge of very dangerous troubles which may become most grave if they are augmented by any mismanagement here at home; and I should consider myself wrong if I did not on this, almost the last occasion which offers, to the best of my ability signal the perils which I see ahead.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYMy Lords, I was not in my place at the beginning of this discussion, but I believe I am right in saying that the noble Lord at the head of the Colonial Office announced that Sir H. Robinson has resigned.
  LORD KNUTSFORDYes.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYMy Lords, I could not allow this opportunity to pass without expressing my sense also, as the noble Earl has done, of the very high public services which have

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  been rendered to this country and South Africa by Sir H. Robinson. It was my lot to advise Her Majesty to send Sir H. Robinson to South Africa in circumstances of extraordinary difficulty; though this is happily not an occasion when I need recall to your Lordships the controversies which arose and the difficulties and calamities which developed during the period which preceded his appointment. Whatever may have been the opinions as to the policy then pursued, I think there is no difference as to the manner in which Sir H. Robinson carried into effect that policy. He had to conduct the negotiations for the final arrangements with the Transvaal in which he displayed a moderation, tact, good sense, and loyalty to the Government at home beyond all praise. Since that time Sir H. Robinson, during many years, has presided over the Government of Cape Colony—a Government which my noble Friend the Colonial Secretary will, I am sure, agree with me is the most difficult Government under the British Crown; and he performed that arduous task with such signal success that on leaving the colony he had, what is without precedent, the universal approval of all classes of the colonists over whom he has been Governor. Now, having said so much, I cannot refrain from adding something with reference to the grave subject touched upon by the noble Lord opposite. The very eminence of the man who has resigned, the very success of his policy, the very unanimity with which that policy has been approved in South Africa, renders the situation one of peculiar gravity, and it is most unfortunate, if it be so, that on this occasion there is likely to be disagreement between the colonists and the Government at home. My Lords, I have read, as I suppose all interested in colonial affairs have read, the speech of Sir H. Robinson delivered before his departure. Without pledging myself to every detail of that speech, in the main lines of it I absolutely and entirely concur. I do not think that wiser or more weighty words have been spoken about South Africa for many years. And delivered at such a time, to such people from such a man, I trust indeed that before Her Majesty's Government depart widely from the policy indicated by that speech they will consider, not once, but many times. No
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  man can be more sensible than I am, or has more reason to be sensible, of the difficulties attending the government of Cape Colony; and I have no, desire to say anything which may aggravate the difficulties which always exist for Her Majesty's Government in these matters. But I think it would he wrong not to say a few words upon the general policy of the Government with regard to South African affairs. My Lords, I have seen latterly in this country an agitation and a movement arising which I believe to be based on entirely wrong principles. It has for its aim the establishment of some kind of British dominion apart, distinct, and free from the government of the colonies. I do not believe that there could be a more grievous mistake than to imagine that where you have a large number of white colonists, energetic, industrious, and independent, you can withdraw from them that natural opportunity of expansion which the colony presents. Who is it that has made South Africa what it is? It is not the Imperial Government, but the colonists themselves, and they will insist and succeed in reaping the harvest. if you thwart them you will make government impossible. If you act in concert with them you may consolidate the union between them and the mother country. But if, you seek to establish side by side with them dependencies which are conducted on lines absolutely different from those on which they conduct their government, you will certainly he involved with these colonies in difficulties which can only end in their independence. Cape Colony is a colony in which we have a, double interest—an interest not merely on account of the value of the territory which the colony comprises, and the great future which, as I believe, it has before it, but because it is an essential post on the way to India. It behoves us, therefore, to be extremely cautious how we do anything to alienate the white colonists in that part of the Empire. I know well that in many respects the past in South Africa has been unfortunate; but I had hoped that, after all the storms and calamities, there was now a reasonable prospect of a gradual subsidence of the old difficulties, and a gradual coming together of the colonists among themselves; and I

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  had hoped that the colony was working harmoniously with the Government at home with a view to strengthen the existing colony and prepare for a gradual union with the outlying dominions. My Lords, I should be the last to ask the Government to act precipitately; I entirely approve of our giving for a time assistance to those territories outside the colonies from home. As I understood the purport of Sir H. Robinson's speech, it was not that he wished Bechuanaland or any of the other territories to be at once handed over to Cape Colony—for that would not be advantageous to the colony or to the territory—but only that he protested against a new departure which should be based upon the ground that we should establish separate Crown colonies, or whatever else they might be called, independent of the old colonies. I will not detain your Lordships further; but I did not think that it was right on an occasion of so serious a character not to express freely and without reserve the opinion I have formed upon this important question.
  LORD KNUTSFORDI only desire to make a few observations, as it would be manifestly impossible and, indeed, improper for me to enter at the present moment into a discussion on the policy to be observed in South Africa. What I desire to say most strongly is that I do not know what the noble Earl means when he talks of Her Majesty's Government having expressed emphatic disapproval of the policy of Sir H. Robinson. No such disapproval has been expressed or implied. Indeed, as regards one part of that policy, I expressed but a few minutes ago entire approval, and I distinctly stated that Her Majesty's Government desired to keep up those friendly relations with the Transvaal Republic and the Orange Free State which Sir H. Robinson has done so much to form. So far as I have spoken, and so far as I have stated the view of Her Majesty's Government, there has been no disapproval, expressed or implied, of the policy that Sir H. Robinson followed; but, as I have pointed out, new questions of importance have arisen. It was desired to have the opinion of Sir H. Robinson on those and other questions, and I have no doubt that the speech which he delivered on leaving the Cape will come under the
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  consideration of Her Majesty's Government. But Her Majesty's Government could not at once arrive at a determination on those questions; and, therefore, when we were asked for an immediate assurance of complete concurrence in the views of Sir H. Robinson and a promise to support him should he return to South Africa, we were not in a position to give that assurance at once. I must remind your Lordships that Sir H. Robinson has not been recalled; he has retired of his own free will, before we were able to consider the questions brought before us. I repeat that what has passed is not to he taken as a disapproval by Her Majesty's Government of the policy which has hitherto been pursued in South Africa.

DEFENCES OF THE AUSTRALIAN COLONIES.

  QUESTION—OBSERVATIONS.
  LORD LAMINGTONMy Lords, I rise pursuant to notice to ask Her Majesty's Government whether, having undertaken to assist the maritime defence of the Australian Colonies, it may not be desirable to revert to the former system of sending a small number of Imperial troops to each of these Colonies. My Lords, I think I am justified in saying that the policy of Her Majesty's Government in assisting the Australian Colonies in their maritime defence has given universal satisfaction. It is another link added to those which previously bound those Colonies to the mother country. There is nothing so remarkable as the close interest which has been taken in the Colonies by the people of this country of late years. The Colonial Exhibition in London was one of the most successful I think of any of the Exhibitions we have had, and it testified to the rapid growth and development of the Australian Colonies especially. My Lords, we know how great an interest is taken in the colonial industries, and in the development, moral and physical, of the Colonies. Germany, France, and other Powers, are now endeavouring to establish colonies in the Pacific, and it is necessary that measures should be taken to provide for the defence of our Colonies against the contingency of war breaking out. Steps have been taken in reference to their maritime protection, but their

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  land defences also demand attention. Until 1870 there was always a certain limited number of Imperial troops in the Australian Colonies. In consequence of the Maori War in New Zealand, the troops there, which were numerous—amounting in 1864 to as many as 10,336 men—were recalled; and it was no doubt a wise policy to withdraw them, and leave the colonists to carry on such wars themselves. Their presence caused the colonists to carry on wars with the Maoris; or, at all events, those wars ceased when the troops were withdrawn. In Australia, however, in 1860, there were only 1,695 troops; in 1861, 1,044; in 1862, 1,154; in 1863, 1,000; in 1864, 369; in 1865, 405; in 1866, 359; in 1867, 1,651; in 1868, 1,901; and in 1869, 994. Those were the numbers of our soldiers there at those dates, and the colonists had to pay £40 per head for them. I think we should have paid for them ourselves. I do not think we should make the colonists pay for the support we give them by the Queen's troops. On that subject a gentleman who was a Governor of one of our greatest Colonies, and a most exemplary Governor too, wrote to me to this effect: —
  "It should be represented to the Colonies that, in view of the changed circumstances since the opening of the Pacific Railroad, the re-instatement of the English garrisons in the five capitals of Australia would fill up the gap now existing in the military connection between England and her vast Colonies. Thus, Gibraltar, Malta, Aden, India, Ceylon, Singapore, Hong Kong, by extending the line to Australia, and viâ Vancouver to Quebec. It could be further represented to them that the occupation of territory in the Pacific is now seriously engaging the attention of foreign Powers. and that any combination of them in the event of a European war might seriously menace their security, which could only be saved from danger by the maintenance of a military force."
  That is on the very high authority of a gentleman who has filled the position of Governor of a most important colony. I should like to take this opportunity of calling the attention of my noble Friend to the position of the Government on one very important point. As regards the position of Governors, I would ask the Colonial Secretary to consider the expediency of placing the Colonial Service as respects pensions on the same footing as the Diplomatic Service. Until 1868, strange to say, no
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  Governor was entitled to any pension, and gentlemen who had filled those important posts often came home perfectly destitute. It was left to myself, a private Member, to introduce a Governors' Pension Bill. And by that Bill, at whatever age a Governor might retire and become entitled to a pension, he could not enjoy it until he was 60. That Act was amended by the Act of 1872, and the Colonial Secretary has a discretionary power to grant pensions at an earlier age; but the original limitation exists, and I think that ought to be altered, for it is surely as important a position as representing Her Majesty in a great Court, and many of our Colonial Governors are as distinguished as our most eminent diplomatists. I need not say, that as regards sending troops to the Colonies, nothing should be done without the Colonies. being consulted. With regard to the question of expense, to ask for any payment from the Colonies is not to be thought of. Why should they pay? We do not ask them to pay for the ships employed on the Australian station. It is for our advantage to have troops there, and it is well to remember that the Colonies are more important to England than England to the Colonies. They should be treated not as possessions, but as a part of Great Britain. We must not forget how much the Colonies have done for their own defence. Let us act in the spirit New South Wales acted in towards us, when, under the administration of that distinguished statesman, Mr. W. Dalley, they did us such noble service by despatching the Soudan contingent. I trust the Government will express their readiness to meet the wishes of the Colonies if they desire to have an Imperial force stationed among them. A small force would suffice, and the expense would be very small—not so much as the subsidy proposed to be given to the Canadian railways. This, my Lords, is a time when, in the language of a most illustrious personage in a remarkable speech, we must show our sympathy with our brethren beyond the seas who are no less dear to us than if they lived in Surrey or in Kent. That is my reason for taking the present opportunity of bringing forward this question, and of asking the Government whether they will not consider the expediency of

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  again sending out a small number of Her Majesty's troops to each of the Australian Colonies?
  LORD KNUTSFORDI am sure your Lordships will regret to hear that Lord Harris, who if he had been present would have answered the question on the part of the War Office, is unfortunately too ill to be in his place. It is understood that in your Lordships' House a certain amount of latitude is allowed in the putting of questions; but I was not prepared to find the question of the pensioning of Governors introduced in a speech which raised for consideration the question whether Imperial troops should be sent to the Australian Colonies. I will, however, undertake to look into the matter and see how it stands. The question of having Imperial troops in the Colonies had been well considered. In 1869 and 1870 a final decision was arrived at to withdraw Imperial troops from the Australian Colonies. Th it decision was arrived at in pursuance of a well-considered policy which was intended to be complete and final. It was in accordance with a policy that had been marked out with respect to Canada so long ago as 1851 by Earl Grey, and again by the Duke of Newcastle in 1853. The troops were withdrawn in 1869 and 1870; and there was printed at the time a despatch by Earl Granville of the 19th of May, 1870, which set forth the reasons for the withdrawal of the troops, and contained the offer on the part of Her Majesty's Government of the services of British officers in the organization of local troops to take place of those that were withdrawn. In 1875, about five years after the withdrawal of our troops, there was received from the Colony of Victoria an inquiry as to the conditions upon which Her Majesty's Government would be prepared again to send troops to the Colony. I gather that my noble Friend the Earl of Carnarvon, who was then Secretary of State for the Colonies,was not disinclined to meet the views of the Colonial Government; but, after a correspondence with the War Office, it was found that there was great difficulty in settling conditions, as at that time it was not found easy to raise recruits, and the matter was finally dropped. I may remark further that opinion in the colony upon the question was not unani-
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  mous, and the inhabitants of that colony were much divided as to the desirability of again having Imperial troops there. Since that time very great progress has been made in Australia in matters connected with defence. This was one of the good results that was anticipated by Earl Granville when ho finally decided upon withdrawing our troops. He anticipated—and his anticipations have been realized—that the colonists would exhibit a spirit of self-reliance, and would show that they desired to defend themselves and were capable of doing so. The adoption of defensive measures has been watched with interest and sympathy by successive Governments at home, who have always been ready to assist the Colonies in any way they could, and to let them have the aid of British officers in organizing their troops. At this time there are in the Australian forces 1,593 officers, 28,419 infantry, 2,475 horses, and 107 field guns. These figures show what progress the Australian Colonies have made in providing for their own defence by land. I am unable to agree with what the noble Lord said as to the inexpediency of our requiring payment for any troops we might provide, as I hold that we should be right to demand such payment. I believe, however, that if the Imperial Government were prepared to send troops to Australia upon being paid for them the Colonies would decline to accept them; they would not be prepared to pay the great cost such an arrangement would entail, as well as to keep up their own defences. As I have before said, they maintain land forces of an excellent stamp, only requiring a perfected organization to secure the benefits of combined action. There may be good grounds for sending a small body of Imperial troops to the Colonies upon payment being made for them; but it is hardly worth while to discuss the question, or on what conditions financial and military they would be sent, until the Colonies make a request to have them sent. If there came a general request from the Australian Colonies that troops should be sent there again, Her Majesty's Government would not be indisposed to consider that request, provided the necessary conditions, pecuniary and military, could be agreed to; but I am bound to say that

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  without strong pressure from the Australian Colonies, Her Majesty's Government would think it undesirable to depart from the settled policy which has been accepted by all parties; and which has been treated as settled by the Royal Commission over which the Earl of Carnarvon presided; and which has had the good effect already pointed out of establishing strong local forces in the Colonies.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYMy Lords, I should not have made any remark if I had not observed that the noble Lord said if there came a strong pressure from the Colonies that we should send out a certain number of our soldiers, that request would be considered. Of course, any request coming from the Colonies ought to be considered; but the circumstances should be very peculiar to justify us in reconsidering the policy we have adopted. Quite apart from the wishes of the Colonies, there are strong reasons why we should maintain our present system. Our Army is by no means too large for the duties it has to perform. We have a difficulty,sometimes serious, in keeping up our regiments at the strength necessary for foreign service. If we sent any troops to the Colonies we must maintain them at a respectable strength, for nothing can produce a worse impression than scattering handfuls of troops here and there, and a departure from our present system would increase that difficulty. Of course, if our Colonies were not willing to take any share in their own defences —an assumption which cannot be made—the case would be different; but, happily, no such state of things exists. I can hardly conceive a better system than one which encourages the Colonies to provide for their own protection with such assistance from home by way of advice as they may require. My Lords, I do not agree with the noble Lord in another remark he made, that we owe a great deal to our Colonies, but that they owe nothing to us, or that they are more important to us than we to them. Whilst I do not undervalue sentiment as a bond of union, I rely more on self-interest, and I believe there are very strong reasons why the Colonies should desire to remain connected with this country. We can afford them naval protection which they could not adequately provide for them-
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  selves, and we may fairly leave them to their own efforts by land.
  LORD NORTONMy Lords, I think it would be a great mistake to deal with the Colonies as if they were dependencies. What the colonists want at this moment is to be treated on an equality with other British subjects of Her Majesty. If colonists are to be treated by us as fellow-subjects, one of their first functions of free citizenship is to provide for self-defence and to pay their own way in military as in other matters. If we sent troops for their local defence it would be not a link of union as the noble Lord says, but a chain thrown upon them. The old principle of dealing with colonial defence was a bad one, and had so far alienated the colonists, and weakened our connection with them. The keeping of troops in New Zealand had only led to little wars being kept up with the Maories for the purpose of securing a pecuniary advantage to the colony by the support of British troops; and the withdrawal of the troops was the commencement of permanent peace and order. We should, I think, do very wrong indeed to revert to the policy of maintaining home troops in colonies. But in Imperial work the two should work together.

COUNTY COURT APPEALS (IRELAND) BILL.
Read 1a and to be printed. (No. 104.)
WALTHAM ABBEY GUNPOWDER FACTORY BILL. (No. 65.)
House in Committee (according to order); Bill reported without Amendment; and to be read 3a to-morrow.
PURCHASE OF LAND (IRELAND) ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. (No. 84.)

  SECOND READING.
  LORD MACNAGHTENMy Lords, in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, I desire to explain to your Lordships that it is intended to give power to the Land Commission to advance money to tenants to purchase lands which either adjoin their holdings or which, in the opinion of the Land Commission, are reasonably required for the suitable and convenient use and enjoyment of such holdings. The Bill proposes to limit the advance by the Land Commission to any one purchaser

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  under this Act to cases in which not more than ten acres were purchased. The measure is required owing to the Land Purchase Acts only providing for cases in which the tenant buys his own holding. whereas in many instances it is desirable to assist a tenant to enlarge his holding. The money would be advanced upon the same terms and conditions as if advanced under the Land Purchase Act of 1885 and the amending Acts.
  Bill read 2a (according to order), and committed to a Committee of the whole House to-morrow.

THE OFFICE OF HIGH SHERIFF.

  QUESTION—OBSERVATIONS.
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNMy Lords, I desire to call attention to the long delay which has taken place in presenting the Bill relating to the offi e of the High Sheriff, and to ask when the Bill will be introduced. I was told shortly before Easter, upon putting a question in your Lordships' House on the subject, that the Bill relating to the office of High Sheriff would be introduced after the House reassembled, but so far it has not made its appearance. I have received many applications from gentlemen who names are on the list of sheriffs, inquiring whether it is proposed to change certain of the duties and responsibilities of the office, and I therefore beg to ask Her Majesty's Government, with a view to removing uncertainty, when it is proposed to introduce the Bill?
  THE LORD CHANCELLORI am extremely sorry I am not able to give a definite answer to the noble Lord. I must, however, remind him that there is much difference of opinion on the subject. I cannot go into the matter at this moment and explain to the noble Lord what those difficulties are. Though some of them have been got over there are some still outstanding. I am afraid I cannot at this moment give any more definite answer than that. I may say I differ myself on some points from the Report of the Committee which inquired into this matter; but I hope we may be able to legislate on the subject without undue delay.
  LORD COLERIDGEA question has been raised with regard to trumpeters,
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  and I believe the matter is under consideration.
  THE LORD CHANCELLORI may re-assure the noble and learned Lord with regard to that matter. Whenever the question has been raised the matter has been left entirely as it is at present, and it is not proposed to alter the present procedure as to trumpeters.

HARES PRESERVATION BILL. (No. 72.)
House in Committee. on Re-commitment (according to order); an Amendment made: The Report thereof to be received to-morrow.
LAND TRANSFER BILL. (No. 8.)
Amendments reported (according to order), and Bill to be read 3a on Tuesday the 25th instant.
ASSIZES RELIEF BILL. (No. 96.)
Amendments reported (according to order); further Amendments made; Bill to be read 3a to-morrow, and to be printed as amended.

ARBITRATION BILL. (No. 97.)
Amendments reported (according to order), and Bill to be read 3a to-morrow.
House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, till to-morrow, a quarter past Ten o'clock.