Lords Sitting of 27 August 1889

KASHMIR.

  QUESTIONS—OBSERVATIONS.
  LORD HERSCHELL: I wish to ask my noble Friend the Secretary of State for India whether there is any foundation for the rumour, which seems to have occasioned some alarm in different parts of India, that it is the intention of the Government to take possession of the Native State of Kashmir?
  THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (Viscount Cross): I can find no foundation for that report, and it is certainly absolutely untrue. It is true that the Viceroy felt bound, with my entire concurrence, to accept the resignation of the ruler of Kashmir for the present, and place the State under a Native Council, a course advised by the Resident who was there, but anyone who has looked into the way in which the State of Kashmir has been governed for some time past can have no doubt whatever that a wise step has been taken. There is not the slightest intention on the part of the Government or of the Viceroy to annex Kashmir to the British Crown. On the contrary, we have every hope that when the state of things has been remedied in Kashmir the late ruler will see it to be advisable to re-assume control of his State and to govern in a way which will be a benefit to his subjects and to neighbouring countries as well.

  COTTON CLOTH FACTORIES BILL (No. 227.)
  Returned from the Commons with the Amendments agreed to.
  INFECTIOUS DISEASE NOTIFICATION BILL (No. 242)
  Brought from the Commons, read 1a; to be printed, and to be read 2a tomorrow.
  PUBLIC WORKS LOANS BILL (No. 243)
  Brought from the Commons, read 1a; to be printed; and to be read 2a tomorrow.
  BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
  Standing Orders Nos. XXXIX. and XLV. considered (according to order), and dispensed with for the remainder of the Session.
COUNCIL OF INDIA BILL (No. 238.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  VISCOUNT CROSS: Your Lordships will remember that by the Act governing India the Council of India in England to assist the Secretary of State was to consist of 15 Members, and when a vacancy occurred the Secretary of State was bound to fill it up. About a year ago I appointed a Committee to consider carefully the home charges of India, about which considerable complaint has been raised in India itself. One of the recommendations of the Council was that their own number should be reduced. They stated that they had no doubt whatever that a reduced number would be able to fulfil all the duties imposed upon them entirely to the satisfaction of the country, and in fact that if more responsibility rested upon those who were left, the work would be, if possible, better done. Under those circumstances, and acting on the recommendation of the Council

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  itself, with which recommendation I entirely agree, I have to ask your Lordships to assent to the Second Reading of this Bill. A vacancy on the Council has unfortunately occurred through the ill-health of Sir Henry Yule, whose presence on the Council had been of enormous advantage to the natives of the country. A man of more kindly disposition, thorough intelligence, high-minded, upright, honourable character I believe never existed, and I should like to bear testimony to the estimation in which his work is held, and to the services which he has rendered in. the office he so long filled. I now have to ask your Lordships to give a Second Heading to the Bill, which I may say was passed in another place without being challenged even by a Division.
  Bill read 2a (according to order); Then (Standing Order No. XLV. having been dispensed with) Committee negatived; and Bill to be read 3a to-morrow.

EXPIRING LAWS CONTINUANCE BILL (No. 239.)
Read 2a (according to order); Then (Standing Order No. XLV. having been dispensed with) Committee negatived; and Bill to be read 3a to-morrow.
MERCHANT SHIPPING (PILOTAGE) BILL (No. 240.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  LORD BALFOUR: This, my Lords, is a Bill for the purpose of amending certain provisions in the Merchant Shipping Act of 1854, which referred to the employment of pilots and the conditions of their employment. No great change in the law is made, but it is not surprising that, after the lapse of 35 years, certain difficulties should have arisen and certain improvements in the law have become necessary. A good deal of correspondence has taken place in regard to the amendments of the law now proposed, and a Select Committee of the other House of Parliament sat nearly the whole of last Session inquiring into matters which were brought before them in respect to which it was thought the present law of pilotage required amendment. The Bill which is now before your Lordships
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  consists almost entirely of detail, and the Amendments which it effects in the law proceed almost entirely upon the lines of the recommendations of the Select Committee. Provision is made for the further representation of shipowners and pilots upon the Board or Pilotage Authority of the district in which they are interested, and by the 4th Clause provision is made for allowing pilots who are aggrieved by any decision which may be come to by the Pilotage Authority to appeal either to the Judge of the County Court or to a Metropolitan Police or Stipendiary Magistrate. When such an appeal takes place, the Judge or Magistrate is to sit with an assessor of nautical and pilotage experience. There are also provisions for more stringent penalties for manifest and palpable evasions of the law. For example, if the master of a vessel flies a flag which is a colourable imitation of the flag which ought to be at the masthead when a pilot is on board, and that flag is obviously placed there for the purpose of deception, a penalty is imposed. Power is given to the Board of Trade and to the Pilotage Authority to make bye laws with regard to Superannuation Funds in which pilots are interested. The penalties upon employing unqualified pilots are made more stringent. The general provisions of the Bill have been accepted by those interested, and I now ask your Lordships to give it a Second Reading.
  Bill read 2a (according to Order) and committed to a Committee of the whole House to-morrow.

PUBLIC HEALTH (CHOLERA PREVENTION) BILL (No. 241.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  LORD BALFOUR: This Bill is to remove doubts as to the power of the Local Government Board with regard to regulations which they are empowered to make under the Public Health Act, and which have been in force for some 16 or 17 years. It is not the intention of the Local Government Board to make any alterations in the regulations which are now in force, but doubts have arisen as to the completeness of the power of

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  the Board to make the regulations for the detention of persons suffering from cholera. It is obviously a matter of the greatest possible importance that any doubts upon a matter of this kind should be removed, and, therefore, as a precautionary measure this Bill has been introduced. It has passed through the other House of Parliament without Amendment, and I am not aware that any controversy is likely to arise upon it. I now ask your Lordships to give it a Second Reading.
  Bill read 2a (according to order), and committed to a Committee of the whole House to-morrow.

LIGHT RAILWAYS (IRELAND) BILL (No. 234.)
Read 3a (according to order), with the Amendment, and passed and sent to the Commons.
LEASEHOLDERS (IRELAND) BILL (No.231.)
  PREFERENTIAL PAYMENTS IN BANKRUPTCY (IRELAND) BILL (No. 236.)
  Read 3a (according to order), and passed.
LONDON COUNTY COUNCIL (MONEY) (No. 2) BILL (No. 235.)

  THIRD READING.
  Order of the day for the Third Reading read.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 3a."—(The Lard Balfour.)
  LORD DENMANrepeated his objections to this measure, and pointed out the enormous borrowing powers which it conferred upon the County Council. By the Standing Order to which he had on a previous occasion referred, it was clear that the House had power to examine a Bill of this kind and to make alterations in it. It had been said that the particular function of that House was to put a check upon rash legislation. If ever there was a Bill which could be so described, it was this, and the House would not be doing its duty unless it rejected the measure altogether. He urged that a matter of such importance should be dealt with deliberately, and that the Bill ought not to be rushed through Parliament without adequate discussion.
  Amendment moved to leave out ("now") and add at the end of the Motion ("this day six months").—(The Lord Benman.)
  On question whether the word ("now") shall stand part of the Motion, resolved in the affirmative.
  Bill read 3a accordingly, and passed.

POOR LAW BILL (No. 195.)
Commons Amendments to Lords Amendments considered (according to order), and agreed to.

INTERPRETATION BILL (No. 92.)
Returned from the Commons agreed to, with Amendments; Commons Amendments considered (on Motion), and agreed to.
House adjourned at Five o'clock, till To-morrow at half-past Four o'clock.