SECOND READING. (Hansard, 23 August 1889)

LORD DENMAN

The notice which appears on the Paper in my name is to move that the Bill be read a second time this day three months. I would like to explain that that notice is incorrect, because the notice which I handed in, and which I intended to move, was that it be read a second time this day six months. It is sometimes supposed that if Parliament were adjourned until February no Bill could be then taken up at the point which it reached previously to the adjournment; but that is a mistake. If Parliament were to be adjourned until another year any Bill only postponed could be proceeded with. I should like to remind your Lordships of the 59th Standing Order. I am convinced that even in Committee this House has full power to sift and to alter a Money Bill, and that it is not at all 232 impossible that any alteration made by this House may be accepted in another place. The Order is this— Upon Report made by the Lord Chamberlain, from the Committee of the Whole House, concerning the Bill for raising £310,000, by an imposition on wines and other liquors, that in regard the said Bill being very long, and consisting of many paragraphs, came from the House of Commons so near the time of Adjournment, he was commanded to report it as the opinion of the Committee, that it might be entered into the Journal Book of this House that there may be no such argument hereafter used in this House, as was upon this Bill (of shortness of time for the passing of Bills), to precipitate the passing thereof; but that due consideration may be had hereafter, according to the course of Parliaments, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, agreed with the Report made from the Committee, and ordered, that this Order be entered on the Roll of the Standing Orders of this House. We have now got to a system of adjourning before 5 o'clock, and it does seem to me that it is a very extraordinary innovation. It is doing away with an old Standing Order for beginning at 5 and commencing Debate at 5.15. These Standing Orders were well-considered, and certainly worked extremely well. I certainly do protest against Bills being brought in so late in the Session, and with regard to this particular Bill I conceive that it is altogether on an unsound foundation. I venture to say that it was hurried through the House under a misapprehension altogether. The noble Earl, formerly Secretary for the Colonies and Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, said that he did not mind sacrificing part of his vacation; but he was told that his vacation could not begin until this Bill was passed. The electors are not a body so to be depended upon as the householders paying scot and lot. The old elections were a scene of confusion, but a Clerk of the Peace told me that the new County Council Elections were worse than any General Election. I cannot conceive that it is my duty to consent to a Bill for wasting the public money upon building an expensive hall which is intended for a body, subject at any time to a repeal of the Act which founded that Body. In fact, the whole system is on its trial, and you may depend upon it that this money is not wanted. There is plenty of room for the County Council already; their quorum is not a large one. If your 233 Lordships read the history of the Revolution in Sweden you will see how the Administrator was superseded by Gustavus Vasa, and how the hereditary system was established. The Standing Order goes back to the time of Charles II., and it is a good one. Really so late a period of the Session as this is not the time to pass Votes of public money. It is in the power of any two of us now to stop this Bill for one day. If I had a Teller the other side would have to be told as well, and then it would appear that there were not 30 Members in the House, and in accordance with the new Standing Order the matter would have to stand over. It only requires a malignant oppositionist to prove the fallacy of that regulation. I do most earnestly hope that this Bill will not be carried before February of next year, and I beg to move that it be read a second time this day six months.