Lords Sitting of 9 April 1889

HORSEFLESH (SALE FOR FOOD) BILL. (No. 41.)
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and to be read 2a on Thursday the 2nd of May next.—(The Barl Beauchamp.)
DRAINAGE AND IMPROVEMENT OF LANDS (IRELAND) PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL.—(No. 32.)
Read 3a (according to order), and passed.
NATIONAL DEBT REDEMPTION BILL. (No. 39.)
House in Committee (according to order); Bill reported without Amendment; then Standing Order No. XXXIX. considered (according to order), and dispensed with. Bill read 3a, and passed.
TOWN POLICE CLAUSES ACT (1847) AMENDMENT BILL.—(No. 33.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for Second Reading read.
  *THE EARL OF MILLTOWN: My Lords, the Bill which I now ask your Lordships to read a second time is extremely simple in its provisions. The Bill proposes to amend the Town Police Clauses Act of 1847, which was passed with the object of consolidating all the Acts giving to Local Authorities the control of the police. That Act contained, inter alia, a number of clauses with respect to the regulation of hackney carriages. Clause 38, after defining what is meant by "hackney carriage," enacts as follows:—
  "Provided always that no stage coach used for the purpose of standing or plying for passengers to be carried for hire at separate fares, and duly licensed for that purpose, and having thereon the proper numbered plates required by law to be placed on such stage coaches, shall be deemed to be a hackney carriage within the meaning of this Act."
  That Proviso has been held to extend

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  to omnibuses, and the consequence is that the Local Authorities in many towns are powerless to regulate the traffic of omnibuses, which wander about at their own sweet pleasure, causing very serious obstruction and annoyance to the inhabitants. Several towns have proceeded by private Local Bills to give themselves these powers; amongst others, I may mention Birmingham, Accrington, Bristol, Cardiff, Huddersfield, Liverpool, Nottingham, Preston, Salford, Sheffield, and probably many others. The object of this Bill is to save the time and expense of thus proceeding by separate Local Bills, by amending the Act of 1847, and giving the necessary power to all Local Authorities. The reason probably why omnibuses were not included in the Act of 1847 was, that at that time omnibuses as public carriages were hardly known; but I need hardly remind your Lordships that at the present time public omnibus traffic has enormously developed all over the country. I may add that tramcars are not included in this Bill, because the various Acts under which tramways have been constructed have always contained the necessary powers to the Local Authorities. That, my Lords, is really the whole of the Bill. It has been supported by both sides in the Rouse of Commons. It was brought forward by Mr. Pieter', the hon. Member for Leicester, and seconded by my noble Friend Lord Granby. It received no opposition from Her Majesty's Government. At one time it certainly was blocked in the House of Commons, but that, I understand, was for purely personal reasons, as an hon. Member, with that public spirit which distinguishes certain Members of the other House, had blocked this Bill because somebody who sat near the hon. Member who proposed it had previously blocked another Bill in which the blocking Member was interested. Eventually, however, the Bill passed through the House of Commons in the absence both of the blocker and blockee.
  *VISCOUNT TORRINGTON: The Towns Police Clauses Act, 1847, contains in Sections 37 to 68 a series of provisions with respect to hackney carriages. An omnibus standing or plying for passengers to be carried for
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  hire at separate fares is not a hackney carriage within the meaning of those provisions, and the object of the Bill is to extend such provisions to omnibuses, so far as they may be applicable. Under the Bill, power will be given to license omnibuses, &c., and to make bye-laws for the regulation of the conduct of their proprietors, drivers, and conductors, and for other matters connected with the management and use of such carriages. Some slight Amendments have been made in the Bill in the House of Commons, and the Government have no objection to the Bill, as amended. Indeed, the Local Government Board have in several instances amended Local Acts by Provisional Order so as to give effect to proposals similar to those contained in the Bill. These Orders, however, are, of course, in force only in the districts of the Sanitary Authorities whose Local Acts have been thus amended. The Bill would be in force in the district of every Urban Sanitary Authority.
  Bill read 2a (according to order), and committed to a Standing Committee.

  COMMISSIONERS FOR OATHS BILL. (No. 6.)
  House in Committee (according to order); Amendments made; the Report thereof to be received on Thursday next.

  STANDING COMMITTEES.
  Ordered, That two Standing Committees be appointed, the one for the consideration of Bills relating to law and courts of justice and legal procedure, and the other for the consideration of all other Public Bills, that may be committed to them by the House, and that the first of such Committees be designated "the Standing Committee for Bills relating to Law, &c." and the second of such Committees "the Standing Committee for General Bills." —(The Marquess of Salisbury.)
  LORD DENMAN: The debate as to the Larcency Bill shows the inconvenience of its being necessary to move for a Committee of the Whole House, instead of its being needful to move specially for reference to a Grand Committee. In fact, there were two debates on the principle of the Bill. I wished to have said that if a burglar deterred by the Bill carried no firearms, he showed that he had no intention to murder. Grand Committee was only named after the debate.
  Resolution agreed to.

  BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE—THE EASTER ADJOURNMENT.
  In reply to Earl GRANVILLE,
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: I understand that there is no business after Thursday next, and that we might adjourn on Thursday. It is usual to meet in the week after Easter week; but I am told it is not usual to meet on the Monday. If there is no objection, we might meet on the Tuesday afterwards.
  House adjourned at a quarter before Five o'clock, till Thursday, a quarter after Ten o'clock.