Lords Sitting of 1 May 1888

NINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Public Libraries Act, 1S55, Amendment*(82); Suffragans' Act Amendment*(S3); Lloyd's Signal Stations*(84); Fishery Acts Amendment (Ireland)*(86).
Second Reading—Duration of Speeches in Parliament(79), negatived; Westminster Abbey (57); Customs (Isle of Man)* (60).
Select Committee—Land Transfer, Lord Thurlow and Lord Henniker added.
Committee—Report—Church Discipline (27).
Third Reading—Cathedral Churches*(46), and passed.
PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL—First Reading—Local Government (Ireland) (Dublin Markets)*(85).

ARMY (INDIA)—THE CONTAGIOUS DISEASES ACTS.—QUESTION.
THE BISHOP OF CARLISLEasked the Secretary of State for India a Question of which he had given him private Notice—namely, Whether his attention had been called to a paper which had been circulated abundantly in this country with regard to certain regulations purporting to come from the office of the Quartermaster General in India concerning a subject which one almost shuddered to mention in their Lordships' House—the provision of women for our soldiers in India. Was the noble Viscount able to make any statement on the subject?
THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Viscount CROSS): My Lords, I have noticed that a very sensational paper has been extensively published containing facts which I cannot believe are true. The Bishop of Lichfield was good enough to call my attention to this matter some time ago, and I communicated with the Viceroy, who said he would make a most thorough investigation into the matter. I have received private information from the Viceroy that he has done this, but of course that private information is such that I cannot lay it before the House, because it has not come to me in an official form. No doubt it will come to me in this form, and I shall communicate the purport of it to your Lordships. What was stated by my direction in the other House was to the effect that we did not believe that the statements which appeared in that paper were true versions of the facts,
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but if any such practice were found to exist as detailed in the paper, we should take care to have the matter stopped.

CHURCH DISCIPLINE BILL.—(No. 27.)
(The Lord Archbishop of Canterbury.)
COMMITTEE.
Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.
Moved, "That the House do now resolve itself into Committee upon the said Bill."—(The Archbishop of Canterbury.)
LORD COLERIDGEsaid, that an Amendment stood in his name on the Paper to the effect that the House resolve itself into Committee that day six months, but as he understood that the Bill would be greatly altered by important Amendments which were to be proposed, he would not move his Amendment at that stage. He, however, reserved his right to do so when the Bill in its complete state was submitted to their Lordships.
LORD GRIMTHORPEsaid, that he had been struck by some remarks made the other day by the noble Marquess at the head of the Government, in which he had pointed out the inconvenience of Amendments of a complicated kind being proposed across the Table, and, therefore, he hoped that before their Lordships were asked to consider the provisions of this measure they would have the actual Bill as it was intended to be passed laid before them.
Motion agreed to; House in Committee accordingly; Bill reported without Amendment; Amendments made; Bill re-committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Friday the 11th instant.

DURATION OF SPEECHES IN PARLIA MENT BILL.—(No. 79.)
(The Lord Denman.)
SECOND READING.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
LORD DENMANin moving that the Bill be now read a second time, said, he hoped that the Bill not being printed would not prevent their Lordships from giving it a second reading. Last year the noble Viscount the Secretary of State for India (Viscount Cross) said it was not necessary in their Lordships' House; but an experienced reporter

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wrote in the Christmas number, 1884, of The English Illustrated Magazine, a description of the debates. He (Lord Denman) thought it so likely to cause offence that he bought up all the copies he could secure at the Derby Station, and at the publishers; he cut out that which might have given his neighbour (the Earl of Wemyss) pain, and sent the article to his Lordship, leaving in only that their Lordships thought him a little "verbose;" but his Lordship wrote that he had seen an "unexpurgated" copy. Certainly, last Session the noble Earl spoke for an hour and 10 minutes; and the noble Earl, on his Bill as to the constitution of the House of Lords, spoke for an hour and 40 minutes. The Bill allowed 15 minutes before the notice of time should be given. Few Lords would wish to get up to stop a speaker; but the Bill could be altered in Committee, and any Bill initiated in either house of Parliament, if agreed to by the other, became law. There had been Notice of a Bill on the subject in the House of Commons, but he had not been able to see it, although a day was appointed for its second reading. He would delay the appointment of the Committee to such a time as might suit both sides of their Lordships' House. He was no Party man, though his Father, before he became a Judge, wrote—
"I am very glad you still take The Morning Chronicle, having an unalterable attachment to old friends and old faces, which no new engagements ever efface."
The noble Lord concluded by moving that the Bill be now read a second time.
Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—(The Lord Denman.)
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (Viscount CRANBROOK)said, that he was sorry, in the absence of his noble Friend at the head of the Government, to have to ask to be allowed to interpose for a short time. This Bill was absolutely unnecessary in that House, as they could regulate their proceedings by their own Standing Orders without requiring an Act of Parliament for the purpose. He did not think that they should make any attempt to regulate the proceedings of the other House of Parliament, and therefore he moved that the Bill be read a second time that day six months.
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Amendment moved, to leave out ("now,") and add at the end of the Motion ("this day six months.")—(The Lord President.)
On Question, That ("now") shall stand part of the Motion?
Resolved in the negative; and Bill to be read 2a on this day six months.

WESTMINSTER ABBEY BILL.—(No. 57.)
(The Marquess of Salisbury.)
SECOND READING.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—(The Lord President.)
LORD LAMINGTONsaid, he must express his regret that, this being a Money Bill sent up to their Lordships' House from the House of Commons, they could not reject it. It was too much to ask the Church to incur an expense of £60,000, which would have to be met out of its funds for the purpose of restoring Westminster Abbey. This was a national monument, and the expense of its restoration ought to be met out of national funds.
Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.

PRIVATE BILL LEGISLATION.
The evidence taken before the Select Committee from time to time to be printed for the use of the Members of this House; but no copies thereof to be delivered, except to the Members of the Committee, until further order. (No. 81.)
PUBLIC LIBRARIES ACT, 1855, AMENDMENT BILL [H.L.]
A Bill to amend the Public Libraries Act 1855—Was presented by The Lord Monkswell; read 1a. (No. 82.)
SUFFRAGANS' ACT AMENDMENT BILL [H.L.]
A Bill to amend the Act of the twenty-sixth year of the reign of King Henry the Eighth, chapter fourteen, intituled "An Act for the nomination and consecration of suffragans within this realm"—Was presented by The Lord Bishop of Carlisle; read. 1a. (No. 83.)
LLOYDS SIGNAL STATIONS BILL [H.L.]
A Bill to confer powers on Lloyds to take lands for signal stations; and for other purposes—Was presented by The Earl of Onslow; read 1a. (No. 84.)

LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) PRO VISIONAL ORDER (DUBLIN MARKETS) BILL [H.L.]
A Bill to confirm a Provisional Order of the Local Government Board for Ireland relating to the providing of a market place for vegetables and fish by the Urban Sanitary Authority of the City of Dublin—Was presented by The Lord Privy Seal; read (No. 85.)
House adjourned at Five o'clock, to Thursday next, a quarter past Ten o'clock.