Lords Sitting of 25 June 1888

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Suffragans' Nomination* (176).
Third Reading—Universities (Scotland) (165); Customs (Wine Duty) (169), and passed.
PROVISIONAL ORDER BILLS—First Reading—Public Health (Scotland) (Kirkliston, Dalmeny, and South Queensferry Water)* (177).
Committee—Report—Local Government (Highways)* (149); Local Government (No. 7)* (150); Local Government (Port)* (151). Third Reading—Local Government (No. 3)*(139); Local Government (No. 4)* (140); Local Government (Poor Law) (No. 6)* (141); Tramways (No. 1)* (143), and passed.

HIS IMPERIAL HIGHNESS THE LATE GERMAN EMPEROR.

  HER MAJESTY'S ANSWER TO THE ADDRESS OF CONDOLENCE.
  THE LORD STEWARD OF THE HOUSEHOLD (The Earl of MOUNTEDGCUMBE)reported Her Majesty's Answer to the Address, as follows:—
  My LORDS,
  "I return you my most sincere thanks for your Dutiful and Touching Address of Condolence on the melancholy occasion of the death of my beloved Son-in-Law, the Emperor Frederick of Germany.
  "This assurance of the warm interest in all that concerns myself and my family affords me deep gratification."

FOREIGN MARRIAGE ACT.

  QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.
  LORD LAMINGTONasked Her Majesty's Government, Whether they intended to bring in a Bill to remedy the inconveniences which arose from the present Foreign Marriage Act? He pointed out that none but clergymen of the Church of England could marry British subjects abroad, and that only in the Embassy Chapel. The Consuls had no power to marry English couples unless both parties had been resident in the city in which they sought to get married for one month. He urged that all this was very inconvenient and worked great injustice, and he trusted the noble Marquess would be able to inform the House that some general Bill would be introduced.
  THE PRIME MINISTER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Marquess of SALISBURY): I am afraid the difficulty of passing general Acts, or any other Acts, is very considerable at this time, and I doubt whether it would be in our power to introduce any measure at this period of the Session which would have any

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  chance of passing. I entirely sympathize with the views of my noble Friend. It is clear that any impediment to the marriage of Nonconformists resident abroad who wish to be married is entirely contrary to justice and to good policy, and I shall be very glad to look into the state of the law as it at present exists to see whether, with the existing power, we are not able to remedy the grievances my noble Friend has referred to. I do not concur with him in thinking it desirable to get rid of that provision which restricts the power of the Consul to the marriage of couples who have been resident a month. I am afraid we should have a renewal of Gretna Green in more convenient and accessible circumstances. Any couple that desires to be married, even if under age, could, without any difficulty, cross the water and get it done. But any obstacle on account of a difference in religious opinion is clearly inconsistent with the policy of the present day, and ought to be put a stop to as rapidly as possible.

  UNIVERSITIES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  (The Marquess of Lothian.)
  (No. 165.) THIRD READING.
  Order of the day for the Third Reading, read.
  The Queen's consent signified; Bill read 3a (according to order).
  Moved, "That the Bill do pass?"
  Amendments made.
  THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (The Marquess of LOTHIAN)stated that the number of Commissioners had been increased from 13 to 15 by the addition of Sir Henry Roscoe and Lord Elgin.
  THE EARL OF ROSEBERYsaid, everybody must feel that the new names which had been added must improve the texture and character of the Commission, excepting in one respect—namely, that whereas the number was to have been 13, it would now be 15. He wished to express most strongly his impression that this Commission was much too large. He was aware there were precedents for appointing Commissions of this size, even with reference to this great subject; but in the days when these Commissions were appointed 30 years ago, Commissioners were not expected to undertake so active a part on
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  the Commission as people were supposed to do now. He feared the result of the large number would be to have a great diminution of the sense of responsibility on the part of each individual Member of the Commission. If they had a Commission of seven, they would have a body of men who would feel it a necessity to attend every meeting, and who would have a due sense of the powers devolved upon them by Statute. But with a Commission of 15, some of whom were resident in England, this could not be the case. They would have an habitually small attendance, ready, he feared, by the analogy of their Lordships' House, to be swamped at any critical moment by the appearance of the absentees on the scene. He was afraid that it was too late at this stage of the Bill to remedy this; but they had entrusted such very large—indeed absolute—powers to the Commission, the composition of which was of vital moment, that he must record his opinion of it even at this late period.
  THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANsaid, he could understand the noble Earl's contention that more efficient work might be done by a small Commission; but, on the other hand, in asking so many Gentlemen to serve, he had looked at the great amount of work to be performed. It might take not only months but years before the work of the Commission could be thoroughly carried through, and he thought that would be too great a task to place on a small number of Gentlemen who gave their honorary services. The analogy with reference to being swamped by absentees, as in the case of their Lordships' House, he did not think could apply. He felt that the Gentlemen whom he had asked represented and felt a practical interest in the subject to which the Bill referred, and he fully believed that they would give their very best attention, as well as all the time they could spare, to the work of the Commission. With that view, and with the hope that it would not entail too much individual work on any of them, the number of the Commission had been so fixed; and their Lordships might feel assured that the work would be fully, effectually, and well done.
  THE EARL OF ROSEBERYasked whether he was to understand that the work would be so severe that the noble

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  Marquess had fixed on the large number on the principle of the survival of the fittest, and that only a small remnant of the Commission would be likely to see the work accomplished?
  THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANsaid, he could not admit that the number was fixed on the principle suggested. He thought the Government had adopted the wisest course.
  Motion agreed to; Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.

  SUFFRAGANS' NOMINATION BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill to make further provision for nomination of Bishops Suffragans—Was presented by The Lord Chancellor; read la.(No. 176.)

  PUBLIC HEALTH (SCOTLAND) PROVISIONAL ORDER (KIRKLISTON, DALMENY, AND SOUTH QUEENSFERRY WATER) BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill to confirm a Provisional Order under the Public Health (Scotland) Act, 1867, relating to Kirkliston, Dalmeny, and South Queensferry Water—Was presented by The Lord Ker [M. Lothian]; Then it was moved that the Sessional Order of the 6th of March last, "That no Bill originating in this House confirming any Provisional Order or Provisional Certificate shall be read a first time after Friday the 11th day of May next," be dispensed with in respect of the said Bill, and that the Bill be now read la; agreed to: Bill read 1a accordingly; and referred to the Examiners. (No. 177.)
  House adjourned at Five o'clock, till To-morrow, a quarter past Ten o'clock.