Lords Sitting of 26 July 1888

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Forest of Dean Turnpike Trust* (232).
Second Reading—Indian Councils Act, 1861, Amendment (224).
Committee—Libel Law Amendment (231); Companies (153–236).
Third Reading—Supreme Court of Judicature Act (Ireland) (1877) Amendment (199–235); Coroners (36); Land Charges Registration and Searches (221), and passed; Companies Clauses Consolidation Act (1845) Amendment (230), discharged.
PROVISIONAL ORDER BILLS—Second Reading—Pier and Harbour (No. 2)* (223).
Report—Local Government (No. 13)* (207).

INDIAN COUNCILS ACT, 1861, AMENDMENT BILL.—(No. 224.)
(The Viscount Cross.)
INDIAN COUNCILS ACT, 1861, AMENDMENT BILL.—(No. 224.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
  THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (Viscount CROSS), in moving that the Bill be now read a second time, said, that its object was simply to rectify a mistake in the drafting of the Act of 1861.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—(The Viscount Cross.)
  Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly) and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

LIBEL LAW AMENDMENT BILL.
(The Lord Monkswell.)
(NO. 190.) COMMITTEE.
House again in Committee (according to order).
LORD MONKSWELLsaid, he did not propose to move any new clause to take the place of Clause 7, which had been struck out, because Clause 7 was really very much the same as Clause 7 in Lord Campbell's Act. He agreed with what the Lord Chief Justice stated the other night as to the great undesirability of having two enactments on the Statute Book dealing with the same subject-matter in much the same way, and he preferred the section in Lord Campbell's Act, because it had been the subject of judicial interpretation.
Clause 10 (This Act shall not apply to Scotland).
THE MARQUESS OF WATERFORD: Why is the Bill not to apply to Scotland?
LORD MONKSWELL: Because the existing Law of Libel is different there from that in England, and somewhat resembles what the law will be if this Bill is passed.
Clause agreed to.
Clause 11 (Short title) agreed to.
House resumed.
On Question that the Bill be reported?
THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord HALSBURY)said, that he was under the

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impression that a new clause would be proposed to make a person liable for a libel spoken at a public meeting in the same manner as if it were published in a newspaper.
LORD MONKSWELLsaid, that a new clause for the purpose would be proposed on the Report.
LORD HALSBURYsaid, he understood that some remarks made on the last occasion when the Bill was before the House, in reference to the clause moved by the Lord Chief Justice (Lord Coleridge) providing that criminal prosecution for libels published in newspapers should not be instituted without the fiat of the Attorney General or an order of a Judge at Chambers, had been thought to reflect on the manner in which the Public Prosecutor had exercised his duties in granting fiats for criminal prosecutions for libel. He (Lord Halsbury) felt sure that they were not made in that sense—there was no intention to cast any reflection upon him. He had received a letter from Sir Augustus Stephenson embodying some statistics from which it appeared that since his appointment 82 applications had been made to him under Section 3 of the Newspaper Libel Act, of which 53 were refused, 27 were granted, one was withdrawn, and one stood over for consideration. Those figures showed conclusively that the fiat of the Public Prosecutor was not granted as a matter of course, as the Lord Chief Justice seemed to suppose. He (Lord Halsbury) was quite satisfied that Sir Augustus Stephenson was the very last person to discharge any duty he undertook in anything like a perfunctory manner.
LORD COLERIDGE (LORD CHIEF JUSTICE OF ENGLAND)said, nothing was further from his mind when he proposed his Amendment than to cast any imputation upon Sir Augustus Stephenson. On that occasion he did not profess to give any opinion of his own; he simply read a letter which was addressed to him by the secretary of a large body of newspaper proprietors embodying their views, and expressing a wish that some such clause as that which he moved should be added to the Bill. As to the general functions of the Public Prosecutor, if it became necessary, he should be glad to call the attention of their Lordships to that matter, but at present
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he did not desire to enter into any discussion.
Question put, and agreed to.
The Report of the Amendments made in Committee to be received on Tuesday next.

COMPANIES BILL.—(No. 153.)
(The Lord Chancellor.)
COMPANIES BILL.—(No. 153.)

  COMMITTEE.
  House again in Committee (according to order).
  Clause 7 (Particulars to be disclosed by prospectus).
  Amendment moved, to omit Sub-section 1, and insert the following words:—
  "Any contract, provision, or arrangement entered into before the complete registration of a registered company whereby any liability is imposed on the company to pay money or money's worth to any person or to confer any advantage, pecuniary or otherwise, on any person (other than such moneys and advantages as are payable to or conferred on all the shareholders of the company) shall, unless notice of such liability is given in any prospectus of the company, or unless such liability is adopted by a general meeting of the company summoned to decide on such adoption, be void to all intents as against the company."—(The Lord Thring.)
  LORD THURLOWsaid, he could not help thinking that if this proposed clause were adopted as it stood, and the 4th sub-section repealing Section 38 of the Companies Act, 1867, were to remain as it stood in the Bill, a very great safeguard to the investing public would be struck away.
  LORD BRABOURNEwas of opinion that the clause would not have the effect,—no doubt intended by its authors—namely, to insure greater care in the issue of the prospectus. If any person who was a party to such an issue was bound under a penalty to disclose the particulars of a great many things which were "within his knowledge," the result might be either that respectable persons might be deterred from becoming Directors of perfectly good undertakings, or that those who became Directors would take care not to allow matters to be "within their knowledge" which might bring them within the provisions of the clause.
  The LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord HALSBURY)said, he thought that the section proposed by the noble Lord was a very valuable one, and he would be

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  glad to incorporate it in the Bill, but he could not consent to omit Sub-section 1. He would accept the clause in addition to, and not in lieu of, that sub-section.
  Amendment, to omit Sub-section 1 (by leave of the Committee), withdrawn.
  New Clause agreed to.
  On the Motion of The Lord CHANCELLOR, Amendment made, in page 3, line 39, by omitting ("is party to,") and inserting ("authorizes").
  LORD THURLOW moved at the end of Sub-section 3 to add—
  "Excepting in the case of such ordinary trading or business contracts as may be either too numerous to recite or might be prejudicial to the interests of the company to disclose."
  He said, he thought it very undesirable to allow persons to frame a prospectus with the view of contracting themselves out of the law; but it might be impossible in the contents of a prospectus to give all the contracts which might have been entered into.
  LORD HALSBURYsaid, he quite saw what the noble Lord meant by the Amendment, and he recognized the importance of the matter. If the noble Lord would withdraw the Amendment he would consider the question.
  Amendment (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn.
  Clause, as amended, agreed to.
  Clause 8 (Copies of prospectus to be filed with registrar).
  LORD THURLOW, in moving to omit the words "signed by," and to insert "bearing the names of," pointed out the great inconvenience that might arise if a Director were ill or abroad, and contended that some such amendment of the clause ought to be made in order to enable Companies to carry on their business.
  Amendment moved, in page 4, line 39, leave out ("signed by,") and insert ("bearing the name of").—(The Lord Thurlow.)
  LORD HALSBURYsaid, he was afraid he could not accept the Amendment. If the Amendment were agreed to, it would be very difficult to fix the responsibility for the statements in the prospectus on anyone.
  LORD HERSCHELLsaid, that, in his opinion, unless the clause was amended,
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  it would often have the effect of paralyzing the business operations of a Company.
  LORD THURLOWhoped the noble and learned Lord would reconsider the point. He could not quite agree that the clause, if amended in the way he suggested, would afford no protection. His reading of the law was that every Director was legally responsible if his name appeared on the prospectus.
  THE EARL OF SELBORNEsaid, he might point out that people's names had often been put on lists of Directors who had never consented to act in that capacity.
  LORD HALSBURYsaid, he had known cases in which gentlemen whose names had appeared on prospectuses had absolutely repudiated their responsibility.
  LORD HERSCHELLsaid, that the remarks of the noble and learned Lord only referred to new Companies. As he had said already in the case of established Companies, if a Director was ill or at the other end of the world, it would be impossible to carry on their business if the clause stood.
  LORD HALSBURYsaid, he would agree to introduce words into the clause which would confine the effect of the clause to the first issue of a prospectus.
  Amendment (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn.
  Clause agreed to.
  Moved to insert the following New Clause after Clause 8:—
  "On and after the commencement of this Act it shall not be lawful for any company to recognise or permit any dealings in or transfers of the shares of the company previous to allotment; and any company so infringing under this section shall render itself liable to a fine of £50 in each case of such infringement, and may be held to be guilty of a misdemeanour."—(The Lord Thurlow.)
  LORD HALSBURYsaid, he would accept the clause in substance; but it would, he thought, require amendment.
  Clause amended, by the omission of the words ("and may be held to be guilty of a misdemeanour,") and agreed to.
  LORD THURLOW LORD THURLOW moved the following as a New Clause:—
  "On and after the commencement of this Act it shall be lawful for any company to issue

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  any portion of its capital at such a premium or at such a discount as may have been sanctioned at a general meeting of the shareholders of the company by a majority of not less than two-thirds of their number present and voting or duly represented by proxies."
  He thought that this was a matter of some importance. It had exercised the minds of the London Chamber of Commerce and other great Bodies, and he thought their Lordships ought to deal with it.
  THE EARL OF SELBORNEthought the clause would be highly objectionable unless it was confined to the issue of new capital.
  THE EARL OF CRAWFORDsaid, he hoped the House would decide this question one way or the other, as at present the law on the matter was very unsettled.
  LORD HALSBURYsaid, some of their Lordships would probably have to settle this point in their judicial capacity. He could not accept the clause, but would consider the point with which it dealt before the Report stage.
  Clause (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn.
  Clause 9 (Restriction on allotment of shares and debentures) agreed to.
  Clause 10 (Prohibition of purchase of shares by company) agreed to.
  Clause 11 (Liability of directors, &c. in respect of qualifying shares).
  Amendment moved, to leave out Clause 11, and insert the following Clause:—

  "(1.) The articles of association of the company shall state the number of shares required as qualification for holding the office of a director of the company, and every case whore a director, as a vendor or otherwise, acquires such qualification otherwise than by payment in cash, in the same manner as public subscribers, shall be fully disclosed on the prospectus.

  (2.) Any default in complying with this section shall render the person so defaulting liable to a fine not exceeding ten pounds for every day during which the default continuos."—(The Lord Thurlow.)

  LORD BRABOURNEsaid, that it was most undesirable, as well as unfair, that Directors should be placed in a different position from all the other shareholders, and compelled to pay up the whole of the capital which they might have invested in the Company, whilst other shareholders might only be called upon
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  to pay up half, one-third, or one-fourth, according to circumstances. If this proposal were seriously made, it should also be provided that interest should be paid to the Directors upon the sum which they were thus obliged to pay in advance of everybody else.
  LORD HALSBURYsaid, that the objections taken to the clause, as it stood in the Bill, were from the Directors' point of view. The object of the clause was to insist on the Directors really paying for their shares, and to insure their really taking an interest in the concern. He maintained that the Directors should have a real and not merely a colourable qualification, as was suggested. He could not, therefore, support the Amendment.
  LORD HERSCHELLsaid, that taking as an example the case of a bank which was converting itself into a Company, it would be absurd to require the partners not only to give up the concern to the new Company, but to pay cash for their shares as well.
  LORD BRABOURNEcould not allow it to be said that his objection was "from the Directors' point of view." He spoke on behalf of the shareholders, whose interest it was to get good Directors, and good Directors would not submit to troublesome or onerous conditions. The truth was that this Bill was founded upon benevolent principles, but would be most inconvenient in its operation. It aimed at two impossible things—one, to prevent foolish people from investing their money foolishly; the other, to aid commercial operations by embarrassing and restricting them. This kind of legislation was very injurious to commercial enterprize, which commercial men could carry on much better if they were allowed greater freedom of action. He (Lord Brabourne) knew that this remark was more suited to the second reading of the Bill than to one of its clauses; but this clause was an example of the whole, and was really one of so absurd a character that it was impossible it could receive the sanction of Parliament.
  On Question, "That Clause 11 stand part of the Bill?" Their Lordships divided:—Contents 23; Non-Contents 29: Majority 6.
  Clause struck out.
  New Clause agreed to.
  Clause 12 (Audit of accounts of companies) agreed to.
  Clause 13 (Balance sheet).
  LORD HERSCHELLsaid, he bad great doubts as to this clause, because it compelled every Company to make disclosures which many Companies now perfectly solid and substantial found it their interest not to make. In these days of keen competition many Companies, as part of their constitution, did not give more than limited information, and the shareholders were perfectly content it should be so.
  LORD THURLOWsaid, he quite concurred in the observations of the noble and learned Lord.
  LORD HALSBURYexplained that he was now in communication with the Board of Trade, with the view of meeting the objections which had been urged, and he suggested that the matter should be postponed till Report.
  Clause agreed to.
  Clause 19 (Provisions as to valuation of plant, &c.).
  LORD THURLOW LORD THURLOW moved to omit the latter part of the clause requiring that there should be appended to the balance sheet "a detailed statement of cost of all items which have been added to capital account since the issue of the last balance sheet." He objected to this provision as vexatious in its character, and prejudicial to the interests of Companies.
  Amendment moved, in page 6, line 37, leave out from ("property") to end of the sub-section.—(The Lord Thurlow.)
  LORD HALSBURYsaid, this clause had been urged upon him by a great number of persons who had shown that people were constantly being defrauded, and particularly the working classes, by the plant belonging to certain Companies being grossly misrepresented in respect of its value.
  LORD THURLOWsaid, he hoped the noble and learned Lord would seriously consider this matter before Report. In many cases it would be absolutely impossible to give the information.
  LORD THRINGsaid, he was in favour of the Amendment.
  Amendment agreed to.
  On the Motion of Lord THURLOW, Amendment made, in page 6, sub-
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  section (2), line 43, by leaving out from ("deducted") to end of the sub-section.
  Clause, as amended, agreed to.
  On the Motion of Lord BASING, the following New Clauses were inserted after Clause 14:—
  (Power to amend memorandum of association with consent of the court.)
  "Any company limited by shares may, by special resolution, so far modify the conditions contained in its memorandum of association as to extend the objects of the company or to increase its power for carrying out its objects; provided that the extended objects shall be of a similar nature to those for which the company was established, but no such resolution shall come into operation until an Order of the Chancery Division of the High Court of Justice confirming the resolution, either wholly or partially, shall have been registered by the Registrar of Joint Stock Companies in the manner hereinafter mentioned."
  (Company to apply to the court for an order confirming resolution.)
  "A company which has passed a special resolution as provided for in the last-mentioned section, may apply to the court, by petition, for an order confirming the resolution; and on the hearing of the petition, the court, if satisfied that the consent of every creditor of the company has been obtained, or his debt or claim has been discharged, or has determined, or has been secured in the manner provided by sections thirteen and fourteen of the Companies Act, 1867, and that the several classes of shareholders, if any, other than ordinary shareholders, have to the extent of three-fourths at least in number and value of such shares assented thereto, may make an order confirming the resolution on such terms and subject to such conditions as it deems fit."
  (Order of the court to be registered.)
  "The Registrar of Joint Stock Companies upon the production to him of an order of the Chancery Division of the High Court of Justice confirming the resolution, and the delivery to him of a copy of the order [and of a minute approved by the court showing that the consent of creditors had been obtained or security given as provided by sections thirteen and fourteen of the Companies Act, 1867] shall register the order [and minute] and on the registration the special resolution confirmed by the order so registered shall take effect. Notice of such registration shall be published in such manner as the court may direct.
  The registrar shall certify under his hand the registration of the order [and minute] and his certificate shall be conclusive evidence that the requirements of this Act with respect to the subject matter of the order have been duly complied with."
  Clause 15 (Report by liquidator on winding up, and proceedings thereupon).
  LORD HERSCHELLsaid, he would suggest the employment of the Official

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  Receiver as liquidator in the winding up of Companies. The Official Receiver was a public official having no interest but that of the public. In the Bankruptcy Act very strict provisions were inserted requiring reports from time to time, meetings of creditors, declarations of dividends, or reasons why the dividends were not declared. Under the existing system the liquidation of Companies lingered on, and there was no such strict insistance on periodical reports as was exacted from the Official Receiver in Bankruptcy. A great deal of scandal would be avoided if the system which he recommended were introduced. At all events, the liquidation of small Companies should be carried on in bankruptcy. In the case of large Companies it was not of so much importance; but he really did not see why the time of the Official Receiver should not be utilized, and there would be this advantage—that he would be an independent officer. The whole subject required consideration.
  THE EARL OF SELBORNEsaid, he did not know whether what his noble and learned Friend had suggested could be done by the present Bill; but he expressed a hope that his noble and learned Friend on the Woolsack would be able to deal with the subject in a comprehensive measure.
  Clause agreed to.
  LORD THURLOW, in moving to insert after Clause 15 a new clause, said, that, under the present law, the liquidator became master of the situation during liquidation; there were no means of bringing him to book and making him account from time to time for what was going on. It would give more satisfaction if the liquidator were placed more in the position of a servant of the shareholders whose interests were at stake, and if the shareholders were enabled to dismiss him if they chose and appoint a new liquidator.
  Moved to insert, after Clause 15, the following New Clause:—
  "Where a company is being wound up voluntarily the liquidator shall, once in every year during the liquidation, call a general meeting of the shareholders of the company, giving not less than eight days' notice, and submit a printed report and balance sheet of the affairs of the company, and of the proceedings during the year, for the approval and confirmation of the shareholders; and it shall be competent to
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  the shareholders, by a majority of not less than three-fourths of those present or represented by proxies, to pass such resolutions bearing on the conduct of the liquidation as they may deem expedient: Provided that any such resolution be subject to confirmation by a three-fourths majority vote at a subsequent shareholders meeting to be called by the liquidator within not less than eight nor more than sixteen days from the date of the first meeting."—(The Lord Thurlow.)
  LORD HALSBURYsaid, he would not absolutely object to the clause; but he thought if the matter was to be dealt with it should be on wider lines. The proposed clause only dealt with a small part of a much larger subject which undoubtedly required consideration.
  THE EARL of SELBORNEthought the clause might be adopted now without the least prejudice to the larger treatment of the question hereafter.
  Clause agreed to, and added to the Bill.
  Remaining Clauses agreed to, with Amendments.
  House resumed; Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 236.)

WAR OFFICE—RIFLE RANGE AT BROWNDOWN (THE SOLENT).

  QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.
  LORD COLVILLE OF CULROSS, in rising to ask Her Majesty's Government, Whether it is true that the War Department has applied to the Board of Trade to have a large portion of the sea, on the north shore of the Solent, buoyed off for the purpose of a rifle range at Browndown; whether it is not the case that the firing at that range is towards the sea, and whether the limit of the range so buoyed a little more than 1,000 yards from the butts on the shore, is not in the fairway of men-of-war and all other classes of vessels proceeding from The Needles, Southampton Water, Cowes Roads, &c., towards Spithead and Portsmouth; and whether the enclosure of such a portion of the sea and foreshore will not further interfere with the fishing industry of the Solent, which has already been much injured by the submarine experiments carried out by the Naval and Military Departments? said, that this subject was creating great anxiety in the neighbourhood of the Isle of Wight, as well as at Southampton and Portsmouth, and chiefly among those who navigated the Solent. A rifle range had existed for many

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  years at Browndown, and it had been a source of very great danger to navigation. A noble Marquess near him (the Marquess of Exeter) had had some unpleasant experience of this danger, and a gallant Admiral had told him that, when passing in his yacht, a bullet passed through his mainsail 5 feet above his head. Another yacht-owner told him that a bullet from the range lodged in the hull of his yacht. The butts were on the sea shore, the targets being 6 feet high and the butts about 10 feet. A large board on the top, which bore the number of the butt, was riddled with bullets, and every one of the bullets that struck that board must have gone into the fairway of the Solent. The War Department had now applied to the Board of Trade for leave to enclose a very large area of the open sea for the purpose of forming a sort of mare sacrum in the rear of the butts. The distance from the butts to the extreme limit of the water to be buoyed off was something more than 1,000 yards, but the rifles now in use were sighted up to 1,400 yards, and, if sufficiently elevated, would, he believed, carry over throe miles. He would be told there was great difficulty in finding ranges in these days. He admitted that; but he was of opinion, and so were many others to whom he had spoken, that a range could be found near Portsmouth without firing into a crowded fairway. A range might very easily be found, for instance, at the foot of the Portsdown Hills, and there there would be no danger. He would now deal with the case of the fishermen. It had been calculated that the space to be buoyed off would be nearly a square mile, or about 600 acres In answer to questions put to him, one of the oldest and most experienced fishermen of the Solent said that he considered the ground to be enclosed was a part of the very best fishing ground inside the Isle of Wight for trawling, dredging, and drifting. From July to December there was no ground inside the Island equal to it. It was also the best for oysters. He said about 100 fishermen worked over it. The fishing in the Solent had already been very much injured by torpedoes and other submarine explosives, and the take of fish was nothing like what it used to be. Taking away this ground from the fishermen would simply mean ruination. During the months of September and
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  October this fishing ground was crowded with boats catching whiting. Even if permission were given to fish the ground when rifle practice was not going on, they would not avail themselves of it. The fishermen would not risk their nets and trawls in a space occupied by the anchors and other ground gear necessary to keep the War Department buoys in their places. He trusted he would hear from his noble Friend that the project had been given up.
  THE EARL OF NORMANTONsaid, that he had known Browndown 40 years or more and was personally and intimately acquainted with the place where experiments were being carried on, but had no personal interest in the matter. For many years past he had not been a yacht-owner, and he did not think he was likely to be one in the present state of agriculture. He said this, however—he should not be surprised if, before this controversy were ended, they were told that it was a question which only affected yachts and yacht-owners; but it was not so. The real interests affected were the coasting traders and the fishermen. With regard to the former, he contended that in certain states of weather the proposed rifle range would render the entrance to Southampton very dangerous and difficult. With regard to the fishing industry, he received the other day a letter from a gentleman acquainted with the locality, in which he said—
  "We are talking of nothing else but the proposed encroachment of the War Office. It will practically enclose the best ground for trawling and live baiting."
  Again, it was probable that the soldiers, knowing they had this expanse of water behind the butts, would be more reckless than before.
  "Recent events had not said much for the popularity of Her Majesty's Government in the neighbourhood of Southampton, and it was not likely to be improved by the scheme proposed, if carried out,"
  He trusted his noble Friend would receive a satisfactory answer.
  THE MARQUESS OF EXETERsaid, that having had some experience of the dangers likely to happen from this rifle range, he wished to add his testimony to that of his noble Friends. Over and over again, when he himself was fishing, he had heard the bullets whizz over his head. He would, however, especially

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  appeal to the Government on behalf of the fishermen, whose main fishing ground was rendered dangerous owing to this range. He had received a letter from an Artillery officer in which the danger of this range was asserted, and in which a case was mentioned of a fisher man who, in the month of October, 1886, while fishing in his boat, was shot in the leg. This was one instance showing the danger, and other similar cases had occurred. It was the ricochet shots of the new recruits which were of greatest danger. The range was dangerous to an important sea thoroughfare, and also to a most valuable fishing ground, and if the War Office could not remove it altogether, the Authorities ought at least to alter the angle at which it was now situated, and earth butts at least 40 feet high ought to be erected.
  THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Lord HARRIS)said, the ranges at Browndown had been in existence for upwards of half-a-century, and if the Military Authorities had not been as careful as they had been, this matter would probably never have been raised at all. Two years ago a measure entitled the Artillery Rifle Range Act was passed, which had been rendered necessary because of people obstructing the firing at ranges—at one range in particular—and power was taken to provide bye-laws for the safety of the public. This was the first occasion on which action was being taken under this Act. Certain bye-laws had been drawn up and advertised in the neighbourhood of the range previous to their being approved by the Board of Trade, and they had unfortunately aroused an agitation in the locality. The noble Lords had made out too strong a case. They said that most valuable and largely-frequented fishing ground was being rendered dangerous. But the range had existed for many years, and if it was so dangerous it would not have been so much frequented. Only one case had been mentioned in which anyone had been injured. It was, no doubt, deplorable that anyone should be wounded, but, owing to the inevitable risk of ricochet shots, it was almost impossible to make a range absolutely safe. Objection was taken to the buoys, but he could not see what injury could be done by marking out the zone of danger in this way. The navigation would not be
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  interfered with, and if fishermen chose to fish within the line marked out by the buoys, they could do so at their own risk. Last year 7,000 regular troops used the range for individual firing, and 2,500 for field practice, besides 3,000 at the annual prize meetings. He could assure the noble Lord who had brought forward this matter that the Secretary of State would give every attention to the objections raised in the locality to the bye-laws, which had yet to be approved by the Board of Trade. If it was possible to find another range, the Government would do so; and, if not, they would do their best to make the existing range safe. No butt would be a perfect safeguard, for no butt could stop a ricochet. Every attention would be paid to the objections raised, both to the bye-lays and to the range; but while these objections were still coming in it was obviously impossible for him to make any more distinct promise.
  House adjourned at a quarter past Seven o'clock, till To-morrow a quarter past Ten o'clock.