QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS. (Hansard, 23 July 1888)

§ LORD GREVILLE

, in rising to ask Her Majesty's Government, If they will during the Recess consider the desirability of bringing forward next Session a Bill for the purchase by the State of the Irish Railways? said: My Lords, I hope to awaken the attention and enlist the sympathy of all who in this House are interested in the future prosperity of Ireland; and in so doing I am most desirous, at the outset, to make it clearly understood that I do not approach the subject from any political point of view. As an Irish landlord, who is deeply interested in the welfare of his country, I am desirous, if possible, of raising this subject altogether out of the region of Party into one of national importance. The question of the Irish Railways has been the subject of Royal Commissions and Committees from time to time, the practical outcome of which has been nil. 170 It is admitted on all sides that the present administration of the Irish Railways has never been strong, efficient, or popular, and has no hold upon the public confidence. Apart from the question of Irish Government, which I have said I do not intend to discuss, there is no practical difficulty in the way of the State acquisition of the Irish Railways. My object will be to show that Ireland offers a promising field for the trial of an experiment which has achieved so much success in other countries, and in our own Colonies; and whatever Government is, or may be, responsible for the administration of Irish affairs, they could put their hands to no more hopeful labour than that of placing the Irish Railways on a basis of State ownership, to be managed primarily for the advancement of national industries. The evidence taken by the Royal Commission on Irish Industries in 1886 shows that trade in Ireland is in a languishing—almost vanishing—condition. As witness after witness was called, it was one long story of over bearing competition, of manufactures declining, of the absence of industrial activity, of enfeebled resources, and unprofitable results. It was a country of all others which required a powerful stimulus of a nature applicable to every kind of industry. It is impossible for any Government to take all the interests of Ireland under its protection. Yet that is, in effect, what the various trade witnesses ask for. There is but one way in which they could all be helped, and that is by dealing with the railways. By this means an incentive may be given to exertion; and whatever elements of self-help exist in Ireland may be brought into operation and given a fair field. The railways are inseparably connected with the success or failure of all other industries, from agriculture downwards. It is just as important to deal with the railways as with the land, since no land reform will be productive unless there is cheap access to the market. It is, no doubt, very important that something should be done for the Irish Fisheries; but no money spent in this direction can secure a proper return unless cheap means of transit are provided. The improvement of the Irish harbours may also be a good object in itself. The harbours are, however, usually useful just in proportion as they are connected with 171 an efficient railway system. The Royal Commission appointed in 1836 to consider a general system of railways for Ireland recommended two divisions, one Northern and one Southern, with certain trunk and branch lines. To avoid a partial execution of the plan it was proposed that the Government should, in certain events, undertake the construction of the railways as public works. The Ministry adopted the view of the Commission, and introduced into Parliament measures authorizing them to construct certain lines, the arrangements for which were to be vested in a Board of Works. The House of Commons approved the proposals; but they were subsequently adandoned, with the result that Irish Railways were left to private enterprize, which, successful in England and Scotland, had been in Ireland a conspicuous failure. From the outset the efforts of the Irish Railway Companies had to be bolstered up by State loans, sometimes for the purposes of construction, sometimes to pay off liabilities. Ever since 1842 the Government has, in a grandmotherly way, looked after the Irish Railways, seeing them through trials of infancy, and coming to their relief in times of emergency. They are characterized by high charges, slow speed, insufficient accommodation, and poor dividends, and if Irish evidence is reliable at all they are a tax rather than an assistance to the Irish people. The administration of the Irish Railways is notoriously wasteful. According to Bradshaw's Railway Manual there are 303 directors, 97 secretaries, engineers, and managers, besides about 60 auditors and solicitors, engaged in the administration or railways, the mileage of which is not largely in excess of that of the English Great Western. Mr. Finlay says— There would be no difficulty whatever in managing the whole of the railways by one Board of Directors, one manager, and one locomotive superintendent. The London and North-Western Railway, the capital of which is three times greater and the receipts four times greater than the capital and receipts of all the Irish Railways put together, and which carries three times the number of passengers, and nine times the tonnage of minerals and merchandize, is managed by a Board of 30 Directors, a Chairman, two Deputy Chairmen, and 172 one General Manager; the Board meeting once a month. When English Railway officials are asked for an explanation of the difference between English rates and Continental rates the invariable answer is that the Continental Railways cost about two-thirds less to construct. But so have the Irish Railways—in round figures, the English lines cost about £40,000 per mile, the Irish lines about £14,000 per mile. It is probable that agriculture, as the chief of the Irish industries, suffers most; but all industries are crushed, while no attempt can be made to establish any new industry. The railways have killed the milling interest. The witnesses say that you may count the silent mills by thousands. The freight turns the scale against home produce. Upon the whole, it can hardly admit of doubt that the through rates are for the advantage of the Irish people. They are able to buy in the best market and sell to the best market. There has been an enormous development of intercourse between the two countries since the Traffic Conference was established. On the other hand, to a certain class of producers and traders it constitutes the same kind of grievance as that felt by English producers when foreign produce is carried over English lines at lower rates than English produce. The recognized wants of Ireland are—(1) A large reduction in rates and fares. (2) Amalgamation and harmonious management. (3) Extension and completion of connecting lines. How were the wants to be supplied? As to rates and fares, it is desirable that the local rates should be reduced to the level of the English through rates. As to amalgamation and harmonious management, that will necessarily follow upon State purchase. There will be one Board of Management and one set of officials. As to extensions and completion of connections, no doubt the Government who take this great subject in hand will have the best advice as to the best means of developing the present railway system. According to the plan which I have described, I estimate that there will be a profit to the Government in the 11th year of £50,000 and in the 13th year of £90,000. I have brought this matter before the House in the hope that the Government may see their way to deal in some way, if not by State purchase, with the ques- 173 tion; because, unless something is done to improve the position of Irish Railways, I fear that, unfortunately situated as the country is at present, its material condition will become a good deal worse. I hope the Government will give a favourable consideration to the subject.