Lords Sitting of 11 December 1888

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILL—First Reading—Preferential Payment of Wages (No. 2)٭ (301).
PARLIAMENT—DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS IN PARLIAMENT.
  OBSERVATIONS.
  LORD DENMANsaid, it appeared from the evidence taken by the joint Committee on Parliamentary Reporting that only those Peers were reported whom Mr. Leycester, of The Times, thought worthy of being reported. It had often happened that no notice had been taken of what he (Lord Denman) had said, and then allusions to what he had said being made by others and those allusions being reported, the whole proceeding was made to appear nonsensical. He had no idea of self-aggrandizement, especially so as, since the Adjournment on August 13, every speech had been fully reported, and could be referred to as the Local Government Bill, and only wished for fair play, and he therefore asked their Lordships to do him the justice to look to the reports as they appeared in Hansard.
LAND PURCHASE (IRELAND) BILL.

  CONSIDERATION OF COMMONS' AMENDMENT.
  Bill returned from the Commons with the Amendment agreed to, with an Amendment: The said Amendment considered.
  THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (Earl CADOGAN), in moving that their Lordships agree to the Commons' Amendment, said, he understood the noble and learned Lord (Lord FitzGerald) offered no objection to it. He believed the noble and learned Lord's Amendment bore the complexion of interfering with the province of the Law Courts in fixing the rate of interest.
  Moved, "That the Commons' Amendment be agreed to."—(The Lord Privy Seal.)
  Motion agreed to.

PUBLIC HEALTH ACTS AMENDMENT (BUILDINGS IN STREETS) BILL.
(The Lord Basing.)
PUBLIC HEALTH ACTS AMENDMENT (BUILDINGS IN STREETS) BILL.

  (NO. 283.) THIRD READING.
  Order of the Day for the Third Reading, read.
  THE EARL OF WEMYSSasked that the stage might be postponed for a week for the farther consideration of what was understood to be an interference with the rights of owners to claim compensation from the Local Authority if they were restricted from advancing
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  buildings to what was considered their frontage line.
  LORD BASINGsaid, that the point was new to him. He understood that the Bill did not propose any alteration of the existing law, except to make it applicable to houses built after the passing of the Public Health Act. Although the objection was taken rather late in the day, no practical difficulty would arise from postponement.
  Third Reading put off to Tuesday next.

CAPE OF GOOD HOPE—EXTENSION OF WORKS AT TABLE BAY.—QUESTION.
VISCOUNT SIDMOUTHsaid, before Parliament separated he wished to ask whether the Government had considered the questions of extending the works at Table Bay, Cape of Good Hope, and of granting assistance to the railway between Simon's Bay and Cape Town?
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (Lord KNUTSFORD)said, the question of extending the works at Table Bay was still under the consideration of the Government. As regarded a contribution to the railway, the decision of the Government at present was that they were not prepared to make one. This decision had been communicated to the Cape Government, and it was possible that further communications might pass between the Colonial Office and the Cape Government. He should, therefore, be glad if the noble Lord would postpone any further Question until early next Session, when the House would probably be placed in possession of fuller information for considering the whole case.

NAVY—GIBRALTAR AND BOMBAY—CONSTRUCTION OF DOCKS.

  QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.
  VISCOUNT SIDMOUTHasked Her Majesty's Government, Whether it was intended to undertake the construction of a dock for men-of-war of the largest class at Gibraltar, and what progress was being made towards the completion of the docks at Bombay for ships of Her Majesty's Navy? The noble Lord said, that the case of Gibraltar had been under the consideration of successive Governments for many years. And yet it was one of immense importance in view of the possibility of a ship being

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  damaged in action or by accident. The construction of a dock, he was told, would not be an expensive affair; it could be completed for £150,000; and there were three available sites. No doubt the dock would be used by private ships, of which 20 passed Gibraltar daily; but a dock could not be constructed by private enterprize, because every portion of the rock belonged to the Crown. The noble Marquess at the head of the Government had been giving great attention to the subject of National defence; and as this question had been so long under consideration, it was not unreasonable to expect that a definite answer might be given.
  THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (Lord KNUTSFORD)said, that he had been requested to answer the Question relating to Gibraltar on the part of the Admiralty. The importance of the matter was fully recognized, but he regretted that a definite answer could not be given, because the subject was still under the consideration of the Admiralty. Reports were being obtained, but it had not yet been decided that a new dock was to be constructed.
  THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (Viscount CROSS)said, with regard to Bombay he was able to assure their Lordships before the House rose for the Summer Recess that he was as anxious as anyone that the docks should be made; but there were then considerable difficulties in the way. He was happy to say they had been, as he believed, removed. It was decided that there should be a conference between the Admiralty and the India Office on the matter. The conference had since taken place, with the result that a modified scheme had been prepared which he expected to receive next week, and which was designed to meet the requirements of both the Admiralty and the Government of India.
  LORD BRASSEYsaid, that he wished to support the noble Viscount in advocating the construction of a dock at Gibraltar. Such a dock would be of great service to the Mercantile Marine and shipping generally, and he had reason to believe that, with the assistance of a subsidy from the Government, which assistance had been given in the case of Vancouver and Hong Kong, a dock might be provided at a small charge to the public.

PERSIA—OPENING OF THE KARUN RIVER.

  QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.
  VISCOUNT SIDMOUTHasked, Whether it would be convenient for the Government to produce copies of Correspondence with the Persian Government and with the British Minister at the Court of Teheran relative to the opening of the Karun and the Port of Mohummreh for European traffic? He had seen reports in the papers in reference to this important matter. Having many years ago visited that port in company with an eminent Orientalist, he then learnt the immense importance of opening up the river for European traffic, though at that time there was no prospect of that being done. If the reports in the papers were correct, he would venture to congratulate Her Majesty's Government upon the remarkable diplomatic success of Sir H. Drummond Wolff. He hoped that the negotiations would result in great benefit to this country, and in the further civilization of the enlightened and remarkable people of Persia.
  THE PRIME MINISTER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Marquess of SALISBURY): My Lords, I hardly think that we have any Papers at present which it would be desirable to lay on the Table with regard to this matter; and as our knowledge to a certain extent comes by telegraph we have not all the Papers which it may be right to present. I would, therefore, ask my noble Friend to defer his Motion to a future time, when we may possibly be able to give a more favourable answer to it. I can only say, in reference to this matter, that I think Sir Henry Drummond Wolff deserves all the credit that my noble Friend has given him for the result of all his exertions. Sir Henry Drummond Wolff is a man of very high diplomatic capacity; and he has fully shown his capacities, and powers, and abilities on this occasion. But it would be entirely unjust to give the whole or even the main part of the credit to Sir Henry Drummond Wolff. I believe the result of the negotiations is due to a very great extent to the spontaneous act of the Shah of Persia himself. The Shah of Persia has come to the conclusion, I believe, that his country does need the aid of the Government in relaxing such impediments as now exists to the freer movement of traffic, and the revival of

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  commerce; and that nothing but some progress in that direction can give any hope of eliciting the remarkable and extensive resources which his country contains. I believe the Shah has taken a very enlightened view of the interests of his country in that respect, and is fully convinced that her material prosperity must advance if she is to maintain her place among the nations. To a very great extent, quite spontaneously, he has resolved upon this act of wisdom, which benefits not England only, but all the commercial nations of the globe; and I heartily hope that it will be the beginning of measures which will be beneficial not specially to England alone, but above all to the Persian people themselves.
  House adjourned at a quarter before Five o'clock, to Thursday next, half-past Ten o'clock.