Lords Sitting of 7 August 1888

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—Second Reading—Committee negatived—Third Reading—Marriages Validation* (256), and passed.
Third Reading—Distress for Rent (Dublin) now Small Debts and Distraint (Ireland) (253); Recorders, Magistrates, and Clerks of the Peace (215); Forest of Dean Turnpike Trust (232), and passed.
Royal Assent—Law of Distress Amendment [51 & 52 Vict. c. 21]; Factory and Workshops Act (1878) Amendment (Scotland) [51 & 52 Vict. c. 22]; Glebe Lands [51 & 52 Vict. c. 20].
PROVISIONAL ORDER BILLS—Royal Assent—Commons Regulation (Therfield Heath) [51 & 52 Vict. c. clxiv]; Elementary Education Confirmation (London) [51 & 52 Vict. c. clxv]; Oyster and Mussel Fisheries (West Loch Tarbert) Confirmation [51 & 52 Vict. c.

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clxvi]; Local Government (No. 13) [51 & 52 Vict. c. clxvii]; Pier and Harbour (No. 2) [51 & 52 Vict. c. clxviii].

THE NEW PUBLIC OFFICES— ADMIRALTY OFFICE.

  QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.
  THE EARL OF WEMYSSasked Her Majesty's Government, With reference to the proposed plans for the new Admiralty, that a model should be prepared of that part of London showing the proposed new buildings on the site which it was intended they should occupy, so that the public might have the opportunity of judging of the structure to be placed on the Horse Guards' site? That site was by far the most noble in the Metropolis, and it was important that the new buildings should be in harmony with the surroundings. He was informed that this would not be the case if the plans in question were carried out.
  LORD HENNIKERsaid, that he would not follow his noble Friend on the Cross Benches as to the question of the site for these buildings, as he had already explained the views of the Government on more than one occasion. The plans of the Admiralty were not so far advanced that a model could yet be made from them. When they were sufficiently advanced to allow of a model being made, the Chief Commissioner of Works would consider whether he could put a model in their Lordships' House. He had no doubt that the Chief Commissioner would be glad to do anything he could to suit their Lordships' convenience.

STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE.
  POSTPONEMENT OF NOTICE.
  THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (Earl CADOGAN)said, that he did not intend to proceed with the Notice he had given with reference to the Report of the Committee on the Standing Orders of the House. It was his intention to ask their Lordships to take that Report into consideration early in the ensuing Session.
PUBLIC BUSINESS—THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT BILL.

  STATEMENT.
  LORD BALFOURsaid, he wished to give notice, with reference to the Local Government Bill, that it was not proposed to ask the House to
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  take the Report stage to-morrow, but to put it down for consideration on Thursday. He would ask permission, also, to make a statement with reference to two points which arose in the course of the discussion of the Bill in Committee. In the course of the discussion on one clause reference was made to certain provisional proposals with regard to the numbers of the County Councillors and Aldermen in England and Wales and the County of London which had been circulated in "another place." He had obtained copies of that print for the use of their Lordships, and they would be found in the Paper Office. Only a limited number remained from the previous printing, but others would be printed as soon as possible. He would wish, however, to remind their Lordships that the proposals were only provisional and intended for the purpose of discussion. It was, therefore, desirable that any representations founded upon those proposals should be submitted to the Local Government Board with the least possible delay. There was another point he desired to mention. A general opinion was expressed on both sides of the House that power should be given to the County Councils to apoint Deputy Chairmen as well as Chairmen. He was not able to accept the proposal last night, but he was now authorized to say that an Amendment would be proposed on the Report stage authorizing each County Council to appoint a Deputy Chairman as well as a Chairman. There was, however, this difference, that the appointment of a Deputy Chairman should be made from among the Councillors or Aldermen, and that the Council should not, as in the case of the Chairman, be able to look outside their own Body. With respect to the time at which this Bill would come before their Lordships, as the principle was not contested, he hoped, in spite of its great length and importance, that unless something unforeseen arose, their Lordships would do as the other House of Parliament did, and would take the third reading at the same time as the Report stage.

PRIVATE BILL LEGISLATION—THE STANDING ORDERS.
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (The Duke of BUCKINGHAM and CHANDOS)THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (The Duke of BUCKINGHAM and CHANDOS)

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said, he had to ask their Lordships to make some Amendments in the Standing Orders relating to private legislation. The Orders, as amended, had been printed and circulated, and the Amendments also. The Amendments had for their object to assimilate the classification of Bills in certain cases, and to meet the case of the new schemes which had lately arisen—namely, tram roads as distinct from, and in addition to, tramways. Some of the Amendments were directed to the purpose of simplifying the very lengthy and expensive notice which the promoters of a Bill had to give. There was also a proposal to place Private Bills which came from the other House under the same obligation as Bills which originated in their Lordships' House, of being read a second time within seven days of the first reading. The object of that was to prevent the delay which had frequently arisen in getting Committees to work on different groups of Bills, in consequence of some one Bill in a group not having been pressed to a second reading by its promoters. All the changes which he had placed on the Paper were concurred in by the Speaker and the Officers representing the other House of Parliament. In conclusion, he moved the adoption of the Amendments as printed.
Motion agreed to.
Standing Orders considered and amended, and to be printed as amended. (No. 260.)

PUBLIC HEALTH (SCOTLAND) PROVISIONAL ORDER (KIRKLISTON, DALMENY, AND SOUTH QUEENSFERRY WATER) BILL.—(No. 177.)

  CONSIDERATION OF COMMONS' AMENDMENTS.
  Commons' Amendments considered (according to order).
  THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (The Duke of BUCKINGHAM and CHANDOS)said, the object of the Amendments was to confirm a certain agreement which was not disclosed in that House when the Bill passed through Committee there. It would be contrary to the established practice of that House to allow such a matter to be done by Amendments in the Commons. Their Lordships' House had had no opportunity of considering the particulars of the agreement. Therefore, in accordance with the ordinary
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  practice, he had to move that that House did not agree with the Commons' Amendments.
  Moved, "That the House disagree to the Commons' Amendments."—(The Duke of Buckingham and Chandos.)
  Motion agreed to.
  A Committee appointed to prepare a reason to be offered to the Commons for the Lords disagreeing to the said Amendments; the Committee to meet forthwith; Report from the Committee of the reason prepared by them; read, and agreed to; and a Message sent to the Commons to return the said Bill with the reason.

MARRIAGES VALIDATION BILL.
(The Lord Chancellor.)
MARRIAGES VALIDATION BILL.

  (NO. 256.) SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
  THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord HALSBURY), in moving that the Bill be now read a second time, explained that its object was to remove any doubts which might exist as to the validity of certain marriages performed by a person who pretended to be a clergyman, who professed that he had taken Orders in the Church of Rome, and who was in consequence received into the English Church. This person obtained a benefice and performed marriages in the parish. Grave doubts had been entertained as to the validity of these marriages, and consequently it was thought desirable that a special Act of Parliament should be passed.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—(The Lord Chancellor.)
  Motion agreed to; Bill read 2,a accordingly; Committee negatived; then Standing Order No. XXXV. considered (according to order), and dispensed with; Bill read 3a, and passed, and sent to the Commons.

SCOTLAND—THE ANTIQUARIAN MUSEUM AND NATIONAL PORTRAIT GALLERY.—QUESTION.
THE EARL OF ROSEBERYasked the Secretary for Scotland, If he will lay on the Table of the House Papers and Correspondence relative to the removal of the Scottish Museum of Antiquities?
THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (The Marquess of LOTHIAN), in reply, said, that the Papers and Correspondence in question would be laid on the Table in the shortest possible time.

LORDS OF PARLIAMENT—GRANTS TO PEERS, &c.

  MOTION FOR A RETURN.
  LORD MONKS WELL, in moving for a Return showing the names of all present Lords who are in receipt of public money from the National Exchequer, whether in the form of salary, pay, pension, or allowance of any kind, or who have received commutation in respect thereof under the Commutation Acts, said, he would remind the House that on the 9th of July a similar Return in relation to the House of Commons was moved for and granted. It had been suggested in their Lordships' House that The Financial Almanack was somewhat inaccurate with regard to the pensions and emoluments of Members, and if that were so it was a reason why the Return should be granted.
  Moved, That there be laid before the House,
  "Return showing the names of all present Lords of Parliament who are in receipt of public money from the National Exchequer, whether in the form of salary, pay, pension, or allowance of any kind, or who have received commutation in respect thereof under the Commutation Acts, with separate columns showing the amounts they receive or have commuted, with the amount of the commutation money, and the name of the office or nature of the service for which the money is or has been paid."—(The Lord Monkswell.)
  THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (Viscount CRANBROOK)said, the Motion seemed rather invidious; but as he understood that the House of Commons had passed a similar Resolution with regard to its Members, there was no intention to oppose the Return.
  Motion agreed to.

  BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
  Standing Order No. XXXV. to be considered on Thursday next in order to its being dispensed with during the present sittings of the House.—(The Marquess of Salisbury.)
  House adjourned at a quarter before Five o'clock, to Thursday next, a quarter past Two o'clock.