HL Deb 20 May 1887 vol 315 cc637-42
THE EARL OF STATE

, in rising to call attention to the consequences of a recent decision of a Committee of that House on the Hillhead and Kelvinside (Annexation to Glasgow) Bill as regards the Botanic Institution of Glasgow and the interests of the University of Glasgow and the public generally therein; and to inquire, Whether Her Majesty's Government will adopt such action as may be necessary to preserve the Gardens from being closed and the site appropriated to buildings and other purposes? said, the object of the Bill in question, which had come up from the Commons, the Preamble having been proved, but the Bill itself being thrown out by a Committee of their Lordships' House, was to annex the two small burghs of Hillhead and Kelvinside, a district which embraced the Botanic Gardens, which were 25 acres in extent. These Gardens, by the Bill, were to be transferred to the Corporation of the City of Glasgow, and were to be maintained by the Corporation in perpetuity as a public park. The Botanic Gardens Institution had got into financial difficulties recently, so much so, indeed, that it was necessary to get loans from the Corporation of Glasgow on the security of the land. These loans amounted, with interest, to between £46,000 and £50,000, and the Corporation of Glasgow had, in consequence of the rejection of the Annexation Bill, been forced to foreclose, and the Gardens passed into their hands on 1st April last. These Gardens were situated near to the University of Glasgow, connected with which there was a medical school attended by a very large number of students amounting in 1885 and 1886 to 694, of whom over 200 attended the Botanical classes. It was incontestable that a Botanic Garden, with proper appliances, was a sine quâ non to the successful study of science. As the matter now stood, however, the Corporation of Glasgow were unable to continue the maintenance of these important Gardens, and there seemed to be only one course open, which he believed was, that the Gardens should be disposed of by sale for building purposes. That would, unfortunately, involve the destruction of the plant and glass houses recently erected at a cost of £20,000, and would also involve the dispersion of very valuable collections which had been accumulated during the pas 50 years. He need hardly say that would be most detrimental to the interests of the University of Glasgow. He might also say that the Universities of Oxford, Cambridge, Dublin, and Edinburgh had Botanic Gardens, which were made use of regularly for the benefit of their medical students, and for which public grants were received in the case of Edinburgh, amounting to an annual sum of £1,600. For these reasons he had put the Question standing in his name on the Paper, and would appeal to the Government to take the case into their favourable consideration. He wished to make an acknowledgment due to the Corporation of the City of Glasgow, by stating that although these grounds were not available to the public just now, they had kindly made ar- rangements by which, the students had access to them during the summer session.

THE EARL OF NORTHBROOK

said, he was Chairman of the Committee before which the Bill referred to had been considered. The real object of the Bill was to secure the annexation of districts in the West End of Glasgow, which included the Botanic Gardens, and the Committee had decided that it should not proceed. Though his own individual opinion was in favour of the Bill proceeding, he was bound to say that the other Members of the Lords Committee gave the most careful attention to the subject, which was one of very great difficulty, and one on which a great deal might be said on both sides. The particular point raised by the noble Earl (the Earl of Stair) was, as he understood it, not on the merits of the general question raised by the Bill, but on the particular question of the Botanic Gardens. So far as he could gather from the noble Earl, it seemed that the Corporation of Glasgow, having lent money to the Botanic Gardens, they now proposed to sell the Gardens for building purposes. He (the Earl of Northbrook) could only say he hoped that the Corporation of Glasgow would not take that course. It did not appear to him that it was at all necessary; because they had already, as stated in the Preamble of the Bill, powers, under a previous Act, to arrange with the Trustees of the Botanic Gardens to take over the Gardens as a public park, and though it might be necessary in order to carry out that arrangement that some further legislation should take place, he could not think that the Corporation of Glasgow would find any difficulty in getting the sanction of Parliament to any such proposal. It might be said, certainly, that the district of Hill-head which lay between the University and the Gardens, not being annexed to Glasgow, it would be unfair to put the charge of the Botanic Gardens upon the City of Glasgow, while the people of Hill head made no contribution towards the maintenance of the Garden; but the Committee had distinctly before them the statement of the Commissioners of Hillhead, that they were prepared to agree to any reasonable arrangement for rating the population of Hillhead in support of the Gardens in question. He did not think, therefore, that the Corporation of Glasgow would be justified, in consequence of the rejection of the Bill by their Lordships' House, in taking a step so vary detrimental to the public interest as to sell the Gardens for building purposes. Before the Committee they had evidence from most distinguished Professors of the University, which entirely supported the statement of the noble Earl, of the great educational value of the Gardens, besides their value as a place of relaxation. Therefore, he trusted that some measure would be adopted to prevent so undesirable an act as that these Gardens should be utilized for building purposes.

THE DUKE OF ARGYLL

said, his attention had been called some time ago to the question how far it was important to annex outlying suburbs. His opinion, generally speaking, had always been that such suburbs, which were really part of a city, ought to resist annexation to a neighbouring town. Their general object was to escape the increased taxation involved, and he must say it was a legitimate object. But he must also say in this case, that two years ago, on looking into the facts, he said that Glasgow was quite entitled in going in for the annexation of those districts which were so thoroughly identified with the city, and were so thoroughly part of the city that annexation was necessary. One of the questions involved in the Bill was the support of the Botanic Gardens, one of the most valuable institutions in the district. The Gardens stood adjacent to the University, and were extremely important to the Medical School of the University. The citizens of Glasgow ought to think twice before they closed these valuable Gardens. He understood the people of the district were willing to bear a share of the maintenance of these Gardens, and he hoped, in the meantime, some arrangement might be made by which they would continue to be supported.

THE MARQUESS OF TWEEDDALE

said, that having taken some interest in the Bill referred to by the noble Earl who had just put the question (the Earl of Stair), perhaps he might be allowed to say a few words. He did not propose to enter into the question of the desirability, or the contrary, of annexing the outlying burghs to the City of Glasgow, for that was not now before the House. Suffice it to say that the decision of the Committee of their Lordships' House had his entire concurrence, and was, indeed, in conformity with no less than four former decisions on the same subject. In regard to the maintenance of the Gardens, there was no ground for the statement of the noble Earl that there was only one course open to the Glasgow Corporation. The noble Earl who had just spoken (the Earl of North-brook) referred to a proposal made by the burgh of Hillhead during the time the Bill was before the House, and repeated since, that the burghs of Hillhead and Kelvinside should contribute to their maintenance. The noble Earl did not state what that proposal was; and he (the Marquess of Tweeddale), therefore, begged to state it. The sum required to maintain the Gardens and pay the interest of 3½ per cent on the Glasgow Corporation's loan was £3,000 per annum. Now, of that it was proposed that the burghs of Hillhead and Kelvinside should contribute £2,000, and the Corporation of Glasgow £1,000, In other words, a community of 15,000 persons were willing to contribute £2,000 a-year, as against £1,000 a-year by the 500,000 inhabitants of Glasgow. He thought that would be admitted to be a most reasonable proposal; and it was impossible, in the face of it, and of the power which the Corporation already possessed, under the Act of Parliament before referred to, enabling them to purchase the Gardens, to contend that they were compelled to foreclose the mortgage and sacrifice the Gardens. It would almost seem as if the Corporation feared to loose the lever which the mortgage gave them wherewith to coerce the small burghs into annexation. At any rate, there seemed no solid ground or good reason for the extreme step which the Corporation appeared inclined to take.

THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (The Marquess of LOTHIAN)

said, that the Government would view with the greatest possible regret the abolition of the Botanic Gardens. Unlike the noble Duke, he had no personal acquaintance with the situation of the Gardens; but, from what he had been able to learn respecting them, it appeared to him that the maintenance of the Gardens was not only a question of great importance to the City of Glasgow, but also to the University. Every facility had been afforded, he believed, to the students of the University of Glasgow for making use of these Gardens; and it would be a distinct blow to the University, and it would handicap it in its relations as regarded the other Universities of Scotland, if these Gardens were abolished. Apart from that question, there was another which seemed to him to be of great importance—namely, this—that these Gardens were started about 70 years ago, and they had been growing and increasing in value from that time to this. Their area, he believed, was only short of Kew; and in extent they were, in fact, the second of the kind in the United Kingdom. The collection of plants they contained was in itself invaluable; but, if sold, it would bring nothing like the real value. As regards the suggestion of his noble Friend (the Earl of Northbrook), he must confess it seemed to him it was in the power of the City of Glasgow, as he understood, to promote some other Act which would enable trustees to take over the Gardens under the Glasgow Parks Act. In fact, by Clause 28 of last year's Act, the City of Glasgow would be able to take over the Gardens as a public park, and maintain them in the interests of the district. On the part of Her Majesty's Government, he would say, although they took very great interest in the question, he was afraid, as the noble Earl (the Earl of Stair) had not made any suggestion as to what course the Government should pursue, he could not make any suggestion himself. He could only say this—that if any practical suggestion could be made by the noble Earl, or by anyone else, by which these Gardens could be maintained, Her Majesty's Government would take it into their serious consideration, and would be very glad if, by any means, that object could be attained.