HL Deb 08 July 1887 vol 317 cc205-7

Order of the Day for the Third Reading, read.

Moved, "That the Bill be now read 3a." —(The Duke of Buckingham and Chandos.)


said, their Lordships would remember that when this Bill was in Committee an Amendment was introduced at the instance of the noble and learned Lord (Lord Grimthorpe). It was accepted on the understanding that time should be allowed for the Bishops to consider its effect, and take such action as appeared desirable at a later stage. After careful consideration, he (the Bishop of Carlisle) and his Brethren had come to the conclusion that the Amendment was not one which they could accept. The 5th section of the Bill provided for certain deductions or drawbacks to be made in calculating the net income with a view to pension of an incumbent about to resign. It was provided that all expenses and taxes upon the parsonage house, and any mortgages which existed on the living which the incumbent was bound to pay, should be treated as deductions. The clause also provided that where a curate was compulsorily employed the stipend should be a deduction. So far, the proposal of the Bill was perfectly fair; but the noble and learned Lord's Amendment introduced two additional possible deductions in the calculation of the net income. It proposed that a deduction should be made where a curate might be compulsorily employed, and also where a curate was in fact employed. It would obviously cause much litigation to decide when a curate might be compulsorily employed, as it was necessary that a Bishop should issue a Commission, and that Commission should Report in favour of the employment of a curate, before the Bishop could compel an incumbent to employ one. When a curate was in fact employed, his stipend was paid either by voluntary contributions of the congregation, by a society, or by the incumbent. In the two former cases, it was obvious that the income ought not to be reduced by an expense which was not borne by it, and when an incumbent voluntarily paid a curate, it would be the height of injustice to make a deduction in calculating his income on account of an expense incurred through his own zeal and liberality. Under those circumstances, he should move that the Amendment of the noble and learned Lord should be struck out.

Motion agreed to.

Bill read 3a accordingly.

On Question, "That the Bill do pass? "

On the Motion of The Lord Bishop of CARLISLE, Amendments made.

Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.