Lords Sitting of 8 July 1887

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—Committee — Report—Trusts (Scotland) Act, 1867, Amendment * (117).
Report—Quarries * (160).
Third Reading—Incumbents' Resignation Act (1871) Amendment (144); Municipal Corporations Acts (Ireland) Amendment (No. 2) * (143); National Debt and Local Loans* (141), and passed.
PROVISIONAL ORDER BILLS—First Reading—Local Government (Ireland) (Ballyshannon, &c.)* (163).
Report—Gas * (123).

CELEBRATION OF THE JUBILEE YEAR OF HER MAJESTY'S REIGN—THE METROPOLITAN POLICE FORCE.

  QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.
  LORD LAMINGTON, in rising to ask Her Majesty's Government, Whether it is intended in any way to recognize the excellence of the police arrangements and the admirable conduct of the Metropolitan Police during the Jubilee celebration? said, that if there was one thing more than another which filled

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  foreigners with, admiration, it was the admirable behaviour of the police on Jubilee day. On no day had there been fewer charges brought before the magistrates than on the day after the Jubilee celebration, and that he attributed to the admirable conduct of the police, and the excellent organization which had been brought about by Sir Charles Warren.
  EARL BROWNLOW, in reply, said, he wished emphatically to endorse the statement of the noble Lord as to the excellence of the police arrangements, and the admirable conduct of the men themselves on Her Majesty's Jubilee day. He had to inform their Lordships that the services of the Metropolitan Police would be duly recognized and rewarded. The Chief Commissioner had already granted three days' extra leave with full pay to each member of the force. In addition, each, member of the force would receive an extra day's pay and a bronze medal commemorative of the occasion.

NAVY—H.M.S. "IMPERIEUSE."

  QUESTION.
  THE EARL OF DUNRAVENasked Her Majesty's Government, What the maximum weight of coal the Impérieuse is now intended to carry, what is her full rate of speed at sea, and what is the average consumption of coal per hour at that speed?
  LORD ELPHINSTONE (A LORD in WAITING)said, that the maximum amount of coal the Impérieuse is intended to carry is 900 tons. The rate of speed for continuous steaming was 15½ knots per hour, which would involve the average consumption of 150 tons of coal per day. A speed of 10 knots per hour would involve an average consumption of 40 tons per day. He might remind the noble Earl that the same Question was put on April 28th last, on which occasion the same answer that he had now made was given.

INCUMBENTS RESIGNATION ACT (1871) AMENDMENT BILL.
(The Duke of Buckingham and Chandos.)
INCUMBENTS RESIGNATION ACT (1871) AMENDMENT BILL.

  (NO. 144.) THIRD READING.
  Order of the Day for the Third Reading, read.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 3a." —(The Duke of Buckingham and Chandos.)
  THE BISHOP OF CARLISLEsaid, their Lordships would remember that when this Bill was in Committee an Amendment was introduced at the instance of the noble and learned Lord (Lord Grimthorpe). It was accepted on the understanding that time should be allowed for the Bishops to consider its effect, and take such action as appeared desirable at a later stage. After careful consideration, he (the Bishop of Carlisle) and his Brethren had come to the conclusion that the Amendment was not one which they could accept. The 5th section of the Bill provided for certain deductions or drawbacks to be made in calculating the net income with a view to pension of an incumbent about to resign. It was provided that all expenses and taxes upon the parsonage house, and any mortgages which existed on the living which the incumbent was bound to pay, should be treated as deductions. The clause also provided that where a curate was compulsorily employed the stipend should be a deduction. So far, the proposal of the Bill was perfectly fair; but the noble and learned Lord's Amendment introduced two additional possible deductions in the calculation of the net income. It proposed that a deduction should be made where a curate might be compulsorily employed, and also where a curate was in fact employed. It would obviously cause much litigation to decide when a curate might be compulsorily employed, as it was necessary that a Bishop should issue a Commission, and that Commission should Report in favour of the employment of a curate, before the Bishop could compel an incumbent to employ one. When a curate was in fact employed, his stipend was paid either by voluntary contributions of the congregation, by a society, or by the incumbent. In the two former cases, it was obvious that the income ought not to be reduced by an expense which was not borne by it, and when an incumbent voluntarily paid a curate, it would be the height of injustice to make a deduction in calculating his income on account of an expense incurred through his own zeal and liberality. Under those circumstances, he should move that the Amendment of the noble and learned Lord should be struck out.
  Motion agreed to.
  Bill read 3a accordingly.
  On Question, "That the Bill do pass? "
  On the Motion of The Lord Bishop of CARLISLE, Amendments made.
  Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.

CROFTERS HOLDINGS (SCOTLAND) BILL.

  CONSIDERATION OF COMMONS' AMENDMENTS.
  Commons' Amendments considered (according to Order).
  Commons' Amendment to Clause 2.
  THE EARL OF WEMYSSsaid, he must ask the House not to agree to this Amendment introduced by the House of Commons. The Amendment exceeded the scope of the Bill, which was simply to remedy the defects of the Bill of last Session.
  Moved, "That this House doth disagree with the Commons in the said Amendment."—(The Earl of Wemyss.)
  THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (The Marquess of LOTHIAN)said, that, although he thought a good deal might be said in favour of the Amendment, he was bound to say that the objection raised by the noble Lord had great force; and he did not propose to ask their Lordships to agree to the Commons' Amendment.
  Motion agreed to.
  Amendment disagreed to.
  Remaining Amendments agreed to.
  A Committee appointed to prepare Reasons to be offered to the Commons for the Lords disagreeing to the said Amendment: The Committee to meet forthwith. Report from the Committee of the Reasons prepared by them; read, and agreed to;and a message sent to the Commons to return the said Bill with the Reasons.
  House adjourned at Five o'clock, to Monday next, a quarter before Eleven o'clock.