(NO. 28.) SECOND READING. (Hansard, 23 March 1886)

LORD BALFOUR
thought it necessary to say a word or two with regard to this Bill. Their Lordships were aware, when the Bill was before the House last year, he had called attention to some of the provisions contained in it. It came before the House last Session, and ultimately it was referred to a Select Committee of their Lordships. As he believed he was the only Member of that Committee present, it was necessary to say a few words in regard to its procedure. They went through the Bill, which was a large and a long one, very carefully—first with written statements before them, and then called for oral evidence on such points as seemed necessary. 1625 Ultimately they went through the Bill again, making amendments. He ventured to say that, as this Bill was introduced in almost exactly the same state as it left the Committee last year, their Lordships might safely pass it, and let it go to the House of Commons. He did not mean to say that, as it stood, it was a perfect Bill; he thought there were some points in it open to grave objection. But it seemed to him that those who were best entitled to speak for the inhabitants of the burghs to which it referred were practically unanimous that some such Bill was required. It was an attempt to codify the law which had reference to police matters; and although he and several of the Lords who sat on the Committee thought that any attempt to codify the Law of Burghs of all sizes in Scotland on all points was attempting too much, and that it would be much better to leave the larger towns and cities to their own Private Acts, and to attempt a codification of the law only for those smaller burghs which were more numerous throughout the country, he was not prepared to force his opinion upon the House or those chiefly concerned; and in all the circumstances, as the Bill had been carefully considered, he thought it would probably be the wisest course that it should go as soon as possible to the other House of Parliament, and be dealt with there. There were some points to which he should like to draw attention if the Bill reached the Committee stage. If the noble Lord who had charge of the Bill would allow him to confer with him before that time, probably 10 or 14 days before taking the Committee stage, he thought they should be able to arrive at a pretty general agreement with regard to most of the provisions contained in the Bill. If the noble Lord would put off the Committee stage, as he had suggested, that would give time for full consideration to the various parties interested in Scotland.

THE EARL OF GALLOWAY
said, he would confine his observations to one portion of the Bill—that referring to the police. Now, with respect to that, both the last and the present Government had given a pledge to bring in a Bill for the establishment of local government. The present Government he might describe, in the language of Mr. Chamberlain, as a "stop-gap Government;" but whether that were so or not, the present 1626 Government, as well as the last, were under a pledge to bring forward this Session a Bill to establish Local Government Boards. The provisions of this Bill for placing the police under the different Municipal Authorities in Scotland would naturally be extended to the new Local Government Boards. It would be well, therefore, before passing those clauses in the third division of the Bill for the present Government to consider whether this was not now the time, rather than increase the number of local forces in the Kingdom, to establish one general Police Force of an Imperial nature. It was not by what had happened recently in the Metropolis, or in some other towns, that he made the suggestion but it certainly seemed to him that the Police Force, as at present constituted in Great Britain, might be made far more valuable. Their Lordships were aware that the Police Force was constituted half-a-century ago, when they were not acquainted with steam or electricity—or, at least, when steam was in its infancy. The result of those great discoveries brought us very much nearer to one another, and there was thus a necessity for a modification of the scheme of police. The Irish Police Force, for instance, was one of the finest Police Forces in the country, and that was principally because it was an Imperial Force, and not confined to one district. This Bill gave large powers in regard to the appointment and distribution of police in small burghal communities; and as they had the promise of a Bill somewhat of a similar nature dealing with all the rural districts of the country, he thought it would be well before passing this measure to give some further consideration to the matter of an Imperial Police.

§ THE EARL OF ELGIN
said, he did not think it necessary to enter into any defence of the principles of a Bill which had already been confirmed by their Lordships. What had fallen from the noble Earl really touched the principle of the measure, and he could not agree to what his noble Friend had proposed. The noble Earl was in error in thinking that this Bill would increase the local Police Forces to any appreciable extent, for it was laid down in the Bill that no burgh which had less than 20 000 inhabitants should, after the passing of this Act, have a new separate system of police.

THE EARL OF GALLOWAY
said, he did not say it would increase the number of police, but the number of jurisdictions.

§ THE EARL OF ELGIN
said, the Bill would not increase the number of Police Forces. With regard to what had fallen from his noble Friend opposite, he thanked him for what he had said, because the Bill now presented to their Lordships was, as the noble Lord had stated, the Bill which came from the Select Committee last year. He believed there had never been any discussion upon it since it was presented to the House by the Select Committee; and, therefore, anyone who wished to discover what changes had been made by the Select Committee would have to compare it with the original Bill, which, in the case of a Bill of 550 clauses, would be a somewhat laborious task. It might, therefore, be necessary for some discussion to take place upon questions of detail in Committee. The Government proposed to give ample Notice of any Amendments which they might think necessary; and he should be very glad if his noble Friend opposite would confer with him as to anything which he wished to suggest. He would now propose that the Bill should at present be set down for this day week, not with the intention of taking it that day, but in order to fix a day for the Committee stage.