HL Deb 24 June 1884 vol 289 cc1205-7

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.


said, he must be allowed to express the hope that the noble Earl opposite (Earl Fortescue) would not persevere with his intention of moving the rejection of Clause 3. The object of the Bill was to enable information to be obtained of cruelties practised which had not hitherto been available, and it was necessary that some persons should be empowered to enter the premises where the pigeon-shooting was proceeding and examine the birds that had been trapped.

House in Committee accordingly.

Clause 1 (Short titles of Act and of 12 & 13 Vict. c. 92, 13 & 14 Vict. c. 92) agreed to.

Clause 2 (Penalties on keeping ground for trap-shooting, and on shooting at birds from traps, &c.).

Amendment made in title by leaving out all after ("on"), and inserting (" mutilating, &c., birds for shooting purposes").

On the Motion of The Earl of REDESDALE, the following Amendments made:—In page 1, line 17, after ("liberated") insert ("or about to be liberated"); line 18, after ("otherwise") insert ("cruelly"); line 19, leave out ("so as to affect") and insert ("for the purpose of affecting"), and after ("flying") insert ("or for any other purpose"); line 20, after ("shall") insert ("so mutilate or injure, or who shall trap, liberate, or"); line 22, after ("offence ") insert— ("Or in the discretion of the court before which the offender is brought, to imprisonment with hard labour for any term not exceeding one month.")

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 3 (Justices may empower two persons to examine birds provided for shooting).


, in moving as an Amendment, in line 27, leave out ("the"), and insert ("a"), and after ("which") insert ("who has received reliable information"), said, the Bill itself was to enable information, which hitherto had not been easily attainable with regard to cruelties alleged to be perpetrated at pigeon-shooting matches, to be obtained more readily. Persons engaged in these matches carefully excluded all persons likely to give information with regard to the cruelties; and the only chance of their being able to get proper information was by giving authority to certain persons to enter places where shooting matches were going on.

Amendment moved, In line 27, after ("in") leave out ("the") and insert ("a"), and after ("which") insert ("who has received reliable information that"). —(The Earl of Redesdale.)


said, the effect of the clause, as amended, would be that an order might be made without an information upon oath. He knew of no case in which a man's liberty or property was interfered with without an information upon oath. He suggested that that should be provided for.

Amendment amended, by leaving out ("who has received reliable information that"), and inserting ("he has received information on oath that"), and agreed to.

On the Motion of The Earl of REDESDALE, the following Amendment made:—In page 2, line 1, after ("may"), insert ("if he shall consider it desiderable").


moved an Amendment providing that one of the two persons named in the order should be a police-constable.

Amendment moved, in page 2, line 2, after ("persons"), insert ("one of whom shall be a police constable ").— (The Earl of Milltown.)


said, he thought the work would be better done by the officers of the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals; although the police were found very useful in assisting those officers, 19–20ths of the work was done by the latter, and done very well. The great drawback was, that the policeman would always be in uniform, and his coming would, therefore, easily be discovered.


said, he wished to ask the noble Lord (Lord Aberdare) how he proposed to detect all these cases of cruelty? For instance, the cruelty might be committed in an underhand manner, and in placing the birds in the traps. Supposing that the birds were severely pinched and so injured as they were placed in the traps, how would the Inspectors proceed?


said, the Bill was not his Bill; but such cruelty as that mentioned would be discovered after the birds had been shot. The Inspectors would have the power of examining the birds after, as well as before, they were shot at.

Amendment agreed to; words inserted.

On the Motion of The Earl of REDES-BALE, the following Amendment made: — In page 2, line 10, after ("before"), insert ("or after").


said, that the noble Earl at the Table (the Earl of Redesdale), in accepting the words "information upon oath," had really disarmed his (Earl Fortescue's) objection to the clause, and he therefore withdrew it.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 4 (Acts to be construed together with previous Acts) agreed to.

On the Motion of The Earl of REDESDALE, the following new clause added after Clause 3:—

(Power to pay part of penalty to prosecutor.)

"In addition to the moiety of any penalty under this Act, or the Acts to be construed therewith, recovered before any justice, and directed to be paid to the person who shall prosecute for the same or to such other person as to such justice may seem right, such justice may in his discretion direct the whole or any part of the other moiety to be paid to such person."

Report of Amendments to be received on Thursday next.