MOTION FOR AN ADDRESS. (Hansard, 11 February 1884)

THE EARL OF GALLOWAY
, in rising to move an Address for a Copy of the official return from which General Lord Wolseley, G.C.B., quoted in a recent speech at the Artists Volunteers' Dinner, in allusion to 'the whole of the Army at the present 410 moment comprising men of 91 per cent. over 20 years of age, and 20 per cent. over 30; 58 per cent. over 5ft. 7in. in height, and 83 per cent. over 35in. round the chest; and 78 per cent. over two years' service,' said, that the statements to which his Motion referred were made by the noble and gallant Lord on the 26th of January, at the dinner in question, when in the course of some remarks, referring to some unfavourable statements in circulation bearing upon the effective state of the Army, he was also reported to have said— Among other accusations against the Army which I have read is this—that although we talk a great deal about the number of men we can get we do not get them; but during the last two or three days certain figures have been published which nullify this theory. As the noble and gallant Lord, however, was quoting from the figures of the preceding 12 months, he was undoubtedly in error, and it was therefore desirable that the matter should be cleared up. He would move for the Address of which he had given Notice.

THE EARL OF MORLEY
said, that the noble and gallant Lord who had made the statement referred to (Lord Wolseley) was not in the House, and that he (the Earl of Morley) must, therefore, trouble their Lordships with a few observations. The noble and gallant Lord had mentioned to him that, in the speech to which attention had been drawn, he had undoubtedly made use of the figures in the Military Returns for the year ending January 1, 1883, as if they had been the figures for the year ending January 1, 1884. He (the Earl of Morley) need hardly say that he did so inadvertently, and with no intention of misleading the public. Their Lordships must be well aware that, as a matter of fact, it would be impossible, even by this time, to have ready the Returns for the Army up to January 1 of this year. His noble and gallant Friend was, therefore, exceedingly sorry and annoyed that such a mistake should have occurred; but it 411 was entirely owing to a misapprehension. Nor was the mistake due to the fault of any officials at the War Office. His noble and gallant Friend asked for the last Returns, and they were given to him, and he used them. Of course, they could only be the Returns for the year ending January 1, 1883; but, unfortunately, the noble and gallant Lord inadvertently used them as if they were the Returns for the year ending January 1, 1884. He hoped to be able to lay upon the Table, by the end of the next month, a preliminary Return for the Forces at home, which would give the noble Earl a great deal of the information he required. A preliminary Return of that kind was first presented last year, and the precedent was to be followed this Session. It would, in his opinion, be better to postpone discussion on the subject of the quality of recruits until the publication of the Return, and he believed that the figures which would then be laid on the Table of the House would not compare unfavourably with those of preceding years.

§ VISCOUNT CRANBROOK
, in allusion to a further statement made by the noble and gallant Lord (Lord Wolseley) on the same occasion, that the Army at home was to a certain extent deficient in numbers in consequence of the demand made upon it by the Army of Occupation in Egypt, asked whether there was any truth in the rumour that the Government intended to increase the number of recruits so as to supply that deficiency?

THE EARL OF MORLEY
, in reply, said, that undoubtedly the Army of Occupation in Egypt did lead to a difficulty of the kind indicated; but he was sorry that he could not, at that moment, give the exact figures, or explain the steps which would be taken in connection with the matter. He hoped, however, that the course which the Government had in view would soon be made known, as, when the Estimates were forthcoming, they would supply the necessary information as to whether it was necessary to ask for an increased number of men.

THE EARL OF GALLOWAY
said, that when his noble Friend (the Earl of Morley) had said that it would not be desirable to have a discussion on the subject, he at once determined to comply with his intimation. He must, however, at the same time contend it was a 412 matter of very grave and serious importance. That a distinguished officer holding the position of Adjutant General for the Army, who had been selected by both Parties in the State for high command in circumstances of great difficulty, and whose words must, therefore, have great effect on the minds of the people generally, should actually volunteer at a dinner to make a statement with regard to the Army, which now proved to be entirely wrong, was a matter of grave importance. The noble and gallant Lord made it a matter of great importance by having actually volunteered to make the statement in regard to the position of the Army, and which, it now turned out, was entirely erroneous. His noble Friend said that it must have been well known to everybody that the statement was erroneous; but it should be remembered that the speech was made on the 26th of January, 1884, and it had not been contradicted till now, when his noble Friend informed their Lordships that the noble and gallant Lord was talking of the state of the Army as on the 1st of January, 1883. The noble and gallant Lord at the time was answering statements which had been made during the previous two or three months, and quoting figures which had been published, and for the purpose of nullifying those statements. Now, an officer in such a high position should take care to satisfy himself of the truth of the matter before he made a speech of such an entirely erroneous character. However, after the statement of the noble Earl opposite that the Return would be issued as soon as possible, he asked leave to withdraw his Motion.