COMMITTEE. (Hansard, 1 December 1884)

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
said, that he thought it would be better, perhaps, to adhere exactly to the arrangement originally made, that the Committee stage should be taken on Thursday, when the Redistribution Bill was read a second time in the other House. There was also another reason. They understood, when they separated, that there would be no contentious matter introduced that evening. He believed a noble Friend behind him (Lord Denman) was desirous to raise the question of Woman's Suffrage. He was not prepared to support his noble Friend; but, as that was contentious matter, he thought it would be better to adjourn the Committee stage till Thursday.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY
said, he thought that they might, perhaps, have disposed of the question of Woman's Suffrage that night; but as it was contentious it could be dealt with when they were in Committee on Thursday. He would not resist the appeal of the noble Marquess to postpone the Committee till that day; and if no Amendments were then made they might fix the third reading for Friday next.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBUEY
said, there would be no objection to that course if the Redistribution Bill were read a second time in the other House on Thursday. If there were any resistance to passing that Bill in the other House their Lordships might have to consider what course they would pursue.

§ THE EARL OF REDESDALE (CHAIRMAN of COMMITTEES)
said, he could not see why there was any necessity for such extreme haste. They ought to know what was going to be done in the other House upon the question of redistribution before they allowed this Bill to pass from their hands. The question was one of very serious importance, for supposing that there was a breakdown, and their Lordships had passed 340 this Bill and sent it back to the House of Commons, amended or unamended, the effect might be that this Bill would be in operation and applied to the existing constituencies, instead of what both sides had agreed to—namely, that a Redistribution of Seats Bill should come into operation at the same time as the franchise. There was no doubt of the readiness of the House to pass this Bill; but it was reasonable that they should know what course the other House would take as to the Redistribution Bill before giving up all control whatever over it. There was no need for being in haste. There was plenty of time.

§ EARL GRANVILLE
said, he did not wish to be supposed to agree with the noble Earl. He did not apprehend the danger which the noble Earl feared—that the Franchise Bill would come into operation without a Redistribution Bill. He did not object to the postponement of the present stage of the Bill until Thursday.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
said, he wished to say a word with respect to the statement of the noble Earl the Chairman of Committees (the Earl of Redesdale), who seemed to apprehend that the Franchise Bill would come into operation without the Redistribution Bill, and apply to the existing constituencies. That seemed to him (the Marquess of Salisbury) to be absolutely impossible. The Government had given a pledge to resign if the Redistribution Bill did not pass. Of course, their resignation would be followed by consequences in the other House which they all understood.

§ LORD BRAMWELL
said, that he had carefully read the clauses of the Bill, and he found that there were no less than 13 matters which, as it seemed to him, ought to be altered, or, at least, made plainer than they were at present. It might be said that the right thing to do would be to give Notice of Amendments; but he was in this difficulty—that if he gave Notice of a particular Amendment in order to clear up an ambiguity in the Bill, he might be giving Notice of something contrary to the intention of the Government, which he had no desire to do; still, there were points of difficulty which should be cleared up. For instance, there was the question of what was called the service franchise. He (Lord Bramwell) could not tell whe- 341 ther that was meant to include any number of men, or whether it should apply to one only. Again, the household and lodger franchises were to be given if the qualifying premises were situated in a county. Whoever drew that clause had forgot that all boroughs were situate in counties; so that, as the Bill stood, it might be contended that a lodger or householder in a borough would be entitled to vote for the county, which surely could not be intended. He had written out his difficulties, and sent a copy of them to the noble and learned Earl (the Lord Chancellor), the noble and learned Earl (Earl Cairns), and the noble Marquess opposite (the Marquess of Salisbury). If he could get any information from their Lordships as to how those doubts should be removed he should be glad.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR
said, he had received the Paper referred to by his noble and learned Friend with some regret, because nothing was less desirable than that verbal criticism should be applied to the clauses of the Bill without adequate necessity. So far as the points raised by his noble and learned Friend could be regarded as raising any questions of substance, he could assure him that they had been fully considered, and a satisfactory explanation of them could be given. He did not apprehend that the slightest difficulty would arise in interpreting the Bill as it stood.

§ LORD BRAMWELL
said, that that was precisely what he did apprehend. An interpretation might be put on the Bill in that House; but the Bill might come before others who were as incapable of interpreting it as he was. He did not want to indulge in verbal criticism; but the clauses should be made clear to all, and not be discreditable to the House which passed them.

EARL GRANVLLLE
remarked, that nothing could be fairer than that the noble and learned Lord should raise the objections which occurred to his very acute mind as being of importance; but the points in question could be considered in Committee. The noble Marquess (the Marquess of Salisbury) had said that the Government had bound themselves to resign if the Redistribution Bill failed to pass. They had bound themselves to make the Redistribution Bill a vital question but there was another alternative to resigning.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBUEY
said, that as the noble and learned Lord (Lord Bramwell) had alluded to him, he might state that he had been assured that his Amendments were being carefully considered by the Government. He thought it would be better, however, to defer any discussion of them till Thursday.