LORD ELLENBOROUGH, in rising to call the attention of the House to the general state of the Army, and particularly in reference to recruiting for the Army and Militia, remarked, that the question as to the causes of deterioration in recruiting for the Army was a very wide and important one, and he did not think that the causes which had been previously given for this deterioration embraced the whole of the reasons for it. One thing which the Army certainly wanted was rest; and no arrangement that was contemplated by this or any other Government would have immediate effect, because they had got to undo the want of confidence which had been created among the classes from which the recruits were drawn. Many illusions existed on this subject, and there was not one so great on any subject as that with reference to corporal punishment in the Army. His opinion on the question of corporal punishment was that, by its abolition, they deterred the better class of men from joining the Colours, because they removed the protection which it gave to steady and well-conducted men. The objection to it was absurd, and rested entirely on prejudice. The absurdity was seen in the fact that a man discharged from the Army as a bad character, might afterwards be sent to gaol by the Civil power, and there corporal punishment might be inflicted on him. Yet it was not to be enforced in the Army for the sake of discipline. He was not so young a soldier as some persons might suppose, for he entered the Service 44 years ago, and he was convinced that a great portion of the old system might be far more economically and advantageously followed in the Army than the present one which had superseded it. As to looking forward to the Reserve, as it had been looked forward to, he believed that would be found to be most illusory. In political life it was not usual for critics to say what they would do themselves; but military critics could say what they would do. Without alarming the country at all, it could be said that our ranks were thin. The strength of the regiments ought to be what it was under the old system; the actual strength being less than depots should be, and were under the old four- 334 company regimental depot system. The sooner the country appreciated the great interests at stake, and what they had to lose, the better. Their Army was necessarily very small, and, therefore, it ought to be more efficient than any other Army. In regard to filling the ranks of the Army, he would have the English and Scotch Militias embodied for six months, after the harvest of the present year. The best soldiers came from the Militia, and such soldiers cost the country nothing. At present, even the lists of officers were not filled up, and which could have been done without expense. He would implore the Government without delay to have a plan of their own, and to have a fixed time when it would be acted upon. A Government that would forget Party in the matter for a sufficiently long period would disarm opposition. Yielding too easily to sentimental feelings, they had abolished marking and corporal punishment, both of which were valuable for the protection of well-behaved men. He did not suppose that corporal punishment in the Army would be re-introduced, nor was it, strictly speaking, necessary, on the old system. He would prefer seeing at the head of the War Department a real soldier, or a real civilian, not a man a little bit of one and a little bit of the other — that he did not like to see; but, at all events, he hoped that the Secretary of State for War would form an opinion of his own, and not follow those of other people, or obtain it from the hustings. There had been many unjust and untrue statements made in regard to the infliction of corporal punishment. In 1855, he was with his regiment at Gibraltar, and during a whole year only one man was flogged, though there was every temptation open to the men. During the years that he had been in the Army he never heard that the use of corporal punishment was abused. It was abolished for the sake of change, without anything better being introduced in its stead, or indeed any substitute whatever. He implored the Government to consider the expediency of providing a substitute for it in the field, or honestly own that there was not any to be found, by re-introducing it for the Army in the field. Under the Purchase system there was never such heartburning among officers as now. Under that system the poor 335 man was benefited; but now he remained at the top of the list, to the injury of discipline. He hoped that that Constitutional Force, the Militia, would not be so ignored as it had been. With regard to the Volunteers, he knew it was an unpopular thing to say, but he believed the Volunteer movement had caused the greatest injury to recruiting for the Army. It deprived the Army of the best men, as non-commissioned officers, who saw Volunteers wearing military uniform, and obtaining the glory of soldiers without the risk of active service abroad. It would be more economical to encourage the Militia, and to obtain recruits for, and from, that Force, for the Army. When the Militia furnished recruits, they were not boys, as now; but they were, by comparison, old soldiers, who had seen from six to 12 years of service. The mind of the Government ought to be made up, and they ought to make their determination known before the end of the Session.
§ LORD TRUROsaid, it must be remembered that the Volunteers were undoubtedly efficient for the defence of the country in case it were attacked. He pointed out that since the commencement of the Volunteer movement a very large number of Volunteers had acquired a certain taste for military service, and when out of employment had joined the ranks of the Army as a means of livelihood.
THE EARL OF MORLEYsaid, he would answer, in a very few words, what had fallen from the noble and gallant Lord opposite. He had listened to his speech with the greatest attention, and was most anxious to obtain from the great experience of the noble and gallant Lord some hints which might be useful in assisting them in obtaining a larger number of recruits for the Army. But he confessed that when the speech came to an end he felt very much disappointed. He could not see how the re-introduction of the punishment of flogging would bring into the ranks a much larger number of recruits. He did not think it was necessary to go over the ground again; but he should like to repudiate, in the strongest way possible, one statement made by the noble and gallant Lord—namely, that the Army was made a battle-ground of Party. He felt assured that the only object of the noble Viscount opposite (Viscount 336 Cranbrook), and of his noble Friend who was now in Office (the Marquess of Hartington), was to make the Army thoroughly effective. The way in which the Reserves came up the other day, and in which they would come up at any other time when they were called upon to serve their country, was a sufficient answer to the imputation cast upon them. The noble and gallant Lord had suggested that the Militia should be called out for six months. That might not be worse than the suggestion made the other night that they should be called out for 300 days' training; but to act upon either of those suggestions would put them in such a position that they would have no Militia at all to call out. He entirely agreed as to the desirability of obtaining recruits from the Militia for the Line, and the Government had been doing all that they could to encourage that process. A very short time ago he heard that in one regiment alone no fewer than 50 Militiamen had volunteered for the Line in the past month. That was an example of what was occurring to a large extent throughout the country. As he had so recently gone at length into all these matters he was unwilling to detain their Lordships any longer on this occasion.
§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSwished to ask the noble Earl what was the force of effective men that could be put into the field? The best way to ascertain that at the present time would be to lay on the Table a Return of the Queen's Birthday Parade state at Home Stations.
THE EARL OF MORLEYsaid, he thought there would be very great objection to do as suggested. It never had been the custom to give such a Return, and it would be a dangerous precedent.
§ THE DUKE OF CAMBRIDGEsaid, he could not agree at all with the noble and gallant Lord near him (Lord Ellen-borough) as regarded the Volunteers being a great drawback to recruiting good men for the Army. On the contrary, he looked upon the Volunteers as so much additional strength to the Army.